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What A Food Catholic Is & How Christians Should Make Food Choices


“You can sin with food in many ways — by not sharing it, by eating way too much of it, by throwing it across the restaurant table… But you do not sin with food by bowing your head over it, saying grace with true gratitude in your heart, and tucking in.” – Doug Wilson, Confessions of a Food Catholic

In his sharp-edged but humorous title, Confessions of a Food Catholic, Doug addresses the unscriptural approach to food that many Christians have developed in recent years. (By the way, a “food catholic” is somebody who accepts all eaters of all foods, even if he or she doesn’t actually eat quinoa.) Specifically, the book addresses divisive threats to Christian table fellowship, the know-it-all pride of newfangled “health food” rules, and the dislocated moralism that makes “organic” and “natural” the signs of righteousness while disdaining the brethren who buy their beef at Stuffmart.

On today’s podcast, Doug and I get into his approach to how Christianity mingles with food choices, and much more—including longevity and anti-aging, nutrition, diet, fitness, and the ultimate source of the joy and happiness so many of us turn to these type of activities to fulfill. We also discuss Doug’s take on Joel Salatin, the true cost of food, and how we care for the planet.

Doug is an old family friend and the minister of Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho, which is a member of the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches (CREC) and the church I attended all throughout my childhood and during college. After his stint in the submarine service of the U.S. Navy, he attended the University of Idaho where he obtained an MA in philosophy.

As one of its founders, Doug has served on the board of Logos School, a classical and Christian school (K-12), since its inception. He is also a Senior Fellow of theology at New St. Andrews College, which I consider to be one of the better liberal arts institutions in the country. He is the author of numerous books, including Reforming Marriage, The Case for Classical Christian Education, Letter from a Christian Citizen, and Blackthorn Winter. Doug is also the general editor for the Omnibus textbook series. You can check out his blog here, and his metric ton of grandkids can be found spread across the planet with rapidly increasing frequency.

During this discussion, you’ll discover:

-What a “food catholic” is…9:15

  • A food catholic believes that all foods are acceptable for us to eat with regard to our spiritual condition
  • People feel a “spiritual guilt” when they eat
  • Food itself does not corrupt the soul; a lack of discipline does
  • We want to blame the “stuff” rather than the root: a relationship with God

-How to identify what Doug calls “phood pharisees”…12:35

  • A “phood pharisee” is someone who wants to feel superior to those who make, what they believe, are suboptimal food choices
  • Everything is on a “dimmer switch”; the pharisee wants an “on/off” switch
  • Relational roles: children, people hired to give advice, vs. the neighbor with whom you have no moral, legal, or contractual obligation to instruct
  • Writing checks…relationships and responsibilities is akin to having sufficient “funds invested to address and/or correct poor food choices

-How people use diets as a substitute for true righteousness…16:50

  • Post, Kellogg, Graham, etc. marketed their food products to confront sin, i.e., lust
  • Evangelist Charles Finney founded Oberlin College and had all the students on the “Graham Diet” to “subdue animal urges”
  • Charles Spurgeon: “People are praying for revival, when all they need is to open their window”
  • “Bank shot”: your spirituality can be influenced by your diet, but the food itself is not made up of pure thoughts and you cannot get pure thoughts from food
  • The most important thing about the table is who you’re eating with; loving the people you’re sharing a meal with; the food is celebratory
  • God first, then our neighbor, then our food
  • Book: The Atomic Power with God, Through Fasting and Prayer by Franklin Hall

-How to use food to assist in the pursuit of holiness…22:15

  • A rigorous discipline of ascetic fasting attunes you more closely to the spiritual realm
  • Being in the spiritual realm doesn’t mean you’re equipped to be there (drug use)
  • Fasting without a relationship with God can actually derail your spirituality
  • Spiritually attuned is not the same thing as spiritually right

-How food as an anti-aging tactic can enhance or detract from your spirituality…26:25

  • It’s a good thing to be fruitful and productive as long as possible
  • Cost/benefit analysis: trading time on the earth for quality of life
  • We’re stewards of the bodies we’ve been given
  • Do the best you know to do with the information you have and leave the results to God
  • Your life is intended to be “spent”, i.e. active, with normal wear and tear
  • Deuteronomy 29:29 – “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law”

-Advice for social situations where you’re offered food you personally find objectionable… 36:50

  • The Golden Rule: Do as you would be done by
  • The loving thing is to make your host aware of any allergies
  • If you simply don’t like the food, it’s your responsibility to act as though you do like it
  • “Trust God, and love your neighbor”
  • Being a good neighbor or guest is the priority over personal preferences or choices

-How to view food with respect to the humane treatment of God’s creation…41:50

  • BGF podcast with Joel Salatin
  • Book: The Marvelous Pigness of Pigs by Joel Salatin
  • Economies of scale: How much does Joel Salatin’s bacon cost?
  • BGF podcast with Dr. Mark Hyman
  • Being conscious of the environmental impact of food production practices
  • We’re operating “above our pay grade” in regards to food production
  • P.J. O’Rourke: “There’s way too much of you, and just the right amount of me”
  • Politicians want to coercively set the boundaries of what is appropriate and what is not; let the market work out the issues
  • The scalability of regenerative farming may be more practical than what we’re led to believe by huge corporations
  • Equal weights and measures: what applies to one, applies to all

-Balancing rigorous physical and spiritual disciplines…52:00

  • Idolatry: relying on any finite thing to supply a need that only the infinite can supply
  • The drive to be fit/healthy – If you’re looking to that to satisfy a need in yourself that only God can supply, then the problem is you’ve slipped into idolatry
  • Book: Desiring God by John Piper
  • “Where are you finding your joy?”
  • True spiritual joy will satisfy your inner desires
  • “There’s a God-shaped vacuum in every human heart.” – St. Augustine – Only God will fit there
    • Like putting together a puzzle
  • Ecclesiastes 3:11 – “He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.” (God has put eternity in our hearts – we were made for communion with him)
  • Infinite abyss can only be filled with an infinite object, that is God – Pensées by Blaise Pascal

-The one thing fitness buffs need to hear the most…1:00:15

  • Doug Wilson’s blog
  • Don’t focus on living long in such a way as to make you forget what life is about – the point is to have lived, not living a long time
  • To journal:
    • “The short life well lived is better than a long life frittered away”
    • “Food does not make you holy”
    • “Loving your neighbor is a lot more important than the food you are putting into your mouth”

Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.

Resources from this episode:

– Doug Wilson:

– BGF podcasts:

– Books:

– Other resources:

Episode sponsors:

Kion Lean: Support for normal blood sugar levels and healthy energy metabolism, even after large, carb-rich meals. Ben Greenfield Fitness listeners, receive a 20% discount off your entire order when you use discount code BGF20.

JOOVV: After using the Joovv for close to 2 years, it’s the only light therapy device I’d ever recommend. Give it a try: you won’t be disappointed. Order your Joovv today and receive my brand new book, Boundless as a free gift.

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Do you have questions, thoughts, or feedback for Doug Wilson or me? Leave your comments below, and one of us will reply!

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Dr. Gundry chats with Matt Maruca about the dangers of blue light


The average American adult spends nearly 11 hours a day looking at a screen — that’s MOST of the day.

And all this screen time isn’t just hard on the eyes… the blue light in all of our devices may actually be doing serious long-term damage to the health of our entire bodies.

To help me make sense of the science of blue light, I’m joined today by Matt Maruca, the founder of Ra Optics, a blue-light blocking eyewear company.

On today’s episode, Matt and I will dive deep into the science behind the dangers of blue light, discuss why your sunglasses might actually be HURTING your health, and share our favorite “hacks” for avoiding blue light to boost your health — and your energy.

On this episode, you’ll learn:

  • Why diet is NOT enough to totally optimize your health (3:30)
  • How an oncoming car can cause a “snowball effect” of poor health (4:45)
  • Why the SUN can give you more than just a shot of Vitamin D (14:30)
  • Whether YOU are at risk for the negative effects of blue light exposure (16:30)
  • What your pet can teach you about toxic exposure in your home (18:00)
  • Why spending time in front of your screens is actually MORE dangerous than spending time out in the sun (19:00)
  • How THIS “fashion statement” can help you sleep better every night (22:25)
  • One simple Google search that can help make your phone dramatically healthier to use — especially at night (25:05)
  • The most important thing you can put in your newborn’s bedroom (27:15)
  • Why sunglasses can actually damage your eyes — and why you should NEVER wear them at the beach (29:15)
  • A 152 year-old trick for sleeping better at night (34:10)
  • Whether your DOG should wear blue blocking glasses (40:05)
  • The almost imperceptible reason why LED light bulbs might actually be hurting your health (and what you should use instead) (42:20)
  • Why THIS type of fasting is actually a great way to “rev up” your energy levels (44:45)

Mentioned on this episode:

Ra Optics

Ra Optics Instagram

My 7 Deadly Disruptors

The Plant Paradox

Blocking nocturnal blue light for insomnia: A randomized controlled trial

Link between artificial light at night and cancer [STUDY]

Iris Tech software

How to turn your iPhone screen red

Lowbluelights.com for bulbs and accessories

The Light Diet – Instagram

The 119 year-old light bulb that’s still going strong

My interview with Dr. Joseph Mercola


If you like this episode, you may also enjoy:

The benefits of red light therapy with Scott Nelson

Shawn Stevenson talks the benefits of better sleep (and how to get it)

The new science of better sleep with Ben Greenfield

Biohacking with the legend Dave Asprey

Watch on YouTube:





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Hard Questions With Dr. Paul Saladino.


I recently got my hands on Dr. Paul Saladino’s new book The Carnivore Code

Now, if you don’t know who Paul is, then you must listen to my previous episodes with him, including:

Since interviewing Paul, he published this new book on the carnivore diet, and after reading it, I had plenty of tough questions for him, including:

  • How do we *know* the reason our stomachs became 1000x more acidic than a chimp is because of animal food consumption?
  • Is the decline in height and health fully attributable to plants/agriculture, or could it be due to industrialization, crowded cities, etc?
  • Why do you say present hunter-gatherers no longer have access to large game?
  • You say herbivores can detoxify plant toxins, but we can’t. How do they do it?
  • All the isothiocyanate studies are in vivo for human cells. How positive are you the results are replicated in vitro?
  • You say hypothyroidism/crucifer intake is *reported* in Western culture. What’s that mean, exactly? Anecdotes?
  • When you list the “Bad News Gang,” like cigarettes, alcohol, etc. couldn’t you just as easily lump exercise, cold, heat, sunlight, etc. in with factors that turn on NRF2? If so, how do you personally describe your differentiation between good vs. bad NRF2 activators?
  • The studies showing value for the elimination of fruit/vegetable consumption are pretty short (10-12 weeks). Any longer-term studies? And did these studies factor in how the produce was being prepared (e.g. presence of oils, organic vs. inorganic, etc.)?
  • When you say “high intake of isoflavones causes endocrine disruption,” how much is high? Same thing with Chaga for liver cancer. Isn’t that a shit-ton of Chaga?
  • If polyphenols reduce intestinal enzyme production, couldn’t other plant compounds, such as bitters/herbs/spices, along with adequate chewing, combat that by increasing enzyme production?
  • You say resveratrol has repeatedly shown a lack of value in human studies, but what about Sinclair’s research? Hasn’t he shown the opposite?
  • I found it fascinating the claim that plant-based eaters still “crave” or are attracted to meat, but how is an event-related potential (ERP) measured exactly?
  • You say that carbohydrates that accompany plant fiber can spike insulin. That’s painting with a pretty broad brush, isn’t it? I think the lion’s share of plants doesn’t result in an appreciable insulin spike, do they?
  • You say meat is not associated with cancer, but what about if active tumor growth already exists? Would you change anything if you had cancer?
  • The study on telomere length being increased only by red meat was an observational study on 28 people. Any other studies looking directly at telomere or Horvath clock responses to plant vs. animal intake that are larger, more robust, or non-observational?
  • You say that fruits are seeds coated in natural candy, but can’t we eat the fruit flesh and “leave the seeds behind?”
  • What do you say about all the studies showing reduced risk of liver cancer, diabetes, etc. amongst regular coffee drinkers?
  • You say unrendered fat is your preference. Any studies on rendered vs. unrendered fat health, nutrient quality, etc?
  • You say oleosins from coconut/olive oil may cause a strong allergic reaction. How conclusive is that?

Whew! You’d think after all these questions, Paul would let me know I’m being a total pain in the butt, but instead, he graciously offered to do a solosode answering all these questions and highlighting many other up-to-date details on the carnivore diet.

If you’re a visual learner, check out the video below of Paul recording this solosode, in which he includes all of the studies and graphs that he goes over during this podcast.

In Paul’s solosode, you’ll discover:

-An overview of the carnivore diet…6:45

  • Animal-based diet
  • Animal food, specifically red meat, and saturated fats have been vilified incorrectly
  • Paul’s podcast with Nina Teicholz
  • Book: The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz
  • Four parts to Paul’s book:
    • Red meats, organs, etc. are critically important to the human diet
    • Plant foods exist on a toxicity spectrum (defense mechanisms which may be harmful to us)
    • Debunking myths of meat
    • How to eat a carnivore diet (five different tiers)
  • Soil carbon is the best metric for the existence of humans; have plants and animals together on the same land

-“Rabbit starvation” and the ideal ratio of protein to fat to shoot for…15:40

  • Protein is the center of the carnivore diet
  • Start with 1 g of protein per pound of body weight per day
  • Rabbit starvation:
    • “Protein poisoning”
    • Don’t get enough fat and/or carbs to provide ATP to run detox processes in the body
  • Hyperammonemia results when protein intake is not balanced with fats and carbs
  • Amino acids used for metabolism; oxidized for glucose or become ketones
  • Urea cycle:
    • The graphic Paul references in the audio
    • Proteins get broken down into ketone bodies or glucose; there remains a nitrogen group
    • Nitrogen combines with carbon dioxide and forms ammonia, which is toxic to the body
    • Urea is a water-soluble form of the nitrogen which is excreted in the blood
  • There’s a ceiling to the amount of protein a human can consume
  • Graphic showing inputs of ATP into the urea cycle
  • The problem of energetics: Cannot run the human body on amino acids exclusively for long
  • Study: A Review of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans
    • Maximum Rate of Urea Synthesis (MRUS)
  • Shoot for 10-30% of calories from fats and/or carbs to regulate metabolism

-How plants and agriculture have contributed to the decline in human height and health…27:45

-Why present hunter-gatherers no longer have access to large game…35:45

  • Megafauna (very large animals) represented major sources of fat for humans
  • Since the extinction or banning of hunting on large game, humans must rely more and more on carbs than fat to balance protein
  • Plant foods are “fall back” foods; they’re not bad, but not ideal
  • Fruits are the least toxic of all plant foods; they are meant to be eaten
  • Low carb diets can be helpful in the case of metabolic dysfunction
  • Polyunsaturated vegetable oils, linoleic acid, etc. causes mitochondria to become broken
  • Indigenous people are limited by modern laws banning the hunting of large game; forced to “fall back” on plant foods

-How our stomachs became 1000x more acidic than that of a chimp because of animal food consumption…39:45

-Why herbivores can detoxify plant toxins, but humans cannot…51:45

  • Saliva breaks down polyphenols like tannins
  • Plants exist on a toxicity spectrum
    • No defense other than chemicals they develop
    • “Arms race” between plants and animals and fungi for the last 450 million years
  • CYP 450 system in the human liver
  • Humans have not eaten predominantly plants as an herbivore has for 3 million+ years
  • Ruminant animals can detoxify many plant toxins in the rumen, foregut
  • Paper: The Coevolution of Poisonous Plants and Large Herbivores on Range Lands
    • A generalized diet that reduces the probability of eating a toxic amount of any one species
  • There are no nutrients in plants that humans cannot obtain by eating properly raised and prepared animal foods
  • Animals foods contain “zoa” nutrients not found in plants
  • Leafy greens, nuts, and seeds may be causing major problems in our microbiome
  • Eat them rarely, and with a large variety
  • The human diet consists of around 12 different plants in various forms

-Studies on the effects of isothiocyanates in humans…1:01:55

-The difference between environmental and molecular hormesis…1:06:53

  • Environmental is natural (sunlight, cold water, etc.)
  • Molecular (Xeno) hormesis is “alien” or unfamiliar to the body (sulforaphane, curcumin, resveratrol)
  • Exogenous molecules have side effects, similar to drugs from the pharmacy
  • Environmental hormesis does not have side effects
  • Cyclic ketosis, intermittent fasting can turn on sirtuin genes
  • Studies mentioned:

-How a high intake of isoflavones causes endocrine disruption…1:22:40

  • Studies mentioned:
  • Mushrooms are not benign: oxalates, defense mechanisms, and more
  • Efficacy of mushrooms to the diet is questionable

-Why resveratrol has limited value for humans…1:29:45

  • Paul’s interview with David Sinclair
  • Studies done on mice vs. humans will have very different results
  • Redundant benefits: What can be accomplished with resveratrol can be done by fasting and ketosis
  • Possible damage to DNA
  • Studies mentioned:

-How to measure event-related potentials (ERP)…1:37:00

-Whether or not plants spike insulin levels…1:40:20

  • An insulin spike isn’t necessarily bad
  • Carbs do not cause insulin resistance; they fan the flames
  • Polyunsaturated fats are the biggest problems (linoleic acid)
  • Carbs + saturated fat (stearic acid) don’t make us fat
  • Seasonal changes affect dietary needs
  • Stearic acid (found in beef kidney fat) makes humans insulin sensitive
  • The fats we eat determine whether our mitochondria become insulin resistant or sensitive
  • Elimination of carb-containing plants can remove the insulin signal
  • Visceral adipose tissue (an endocrine organ) should be insulin-resistant
  • Carbs are not the cause of insulin-resistance; excess Omega 6 fatty acids
  • Studies mentioned:

-Carnivore diet and cancer…1:53:25

  • Paul’s podcast with Al Danenberg
    • Began the carnivore diet after being diagnosed with cancer; reports the best health of his life and cancer is dormant
  • The big problem with cancer is cachexia (loss of lean muscle mass)
  • Research suggests that meat does not promote cancer growth
  • Eat nose to tail
  • Maintain gut health
  • Studies mentioned:

-The correlation between meat intake and telomere length…1:57:48

-Lightning round questions…2:05:10

  • “You say that fruits are seeds coated in natural candy. Can we just eat the fruit flesh and leave the seeds behind?”
    • Tier 1 carnivore diet can include fruit but do not eat the seeds
    • If you are not insulin resistant, you can include carbs
  • “You say unrendered fat is your preference. Any studies on rendered vs. unrendered fat health and/or nutrient quality?”
  • “You say oleosins from coconut/olive oil may cause a strong allergic reaction. How conclusive is that?

-And much more!

Resources mentioned in this episode:

– Paul Saladino:

– Books:

– Studies and articles:

– Food & Supplements:

– Other resources:

Episode sponsors:

Kion Lean: Support for normal blood sugar levels and healthy energy metabolism, even after large, carb-rich meals. Ben Greenfield Fitness listeners, receive a 20% discount off your entire order when you use discount code BGF20.

Organifi Gold Chocolate: This superfood hot chocolate is loaded with herbs, medicinal mushrooms & healing ingredients to help the body fight disease during sleep. Receive a 20% discount on your entire order when you use discount code BENG20.

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Got a question about the carnivore diet for Dr. Paul Saladino or me? Just drop a comment below and one of us will reply!

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The Real Story Behind Hair Loss and the Revolutionary Approach to Treating It – Roland Peralta


Why you should listen –

Today’s guest, Roland Peralta, struggled with hair loss for over 15 years after being diagnosed with thyroid cancer and rheumatoid arthritis. After trying every treatment out there with little success, he began researching nutraceuticals, and developed his own revolutionary line of hair growth products called Nutrafol. Armed with the latest information, studies, and solutions on this condition that impacts so many, Roland joins Dave to discuss everything related to hair loss. From what is happening in the body that causes it, to the factors and triggers that aggravate it, to the actionable things you can do to combat it, Roland and Dave dig in deep on hair loss, and discuss the promising new treatments available to fight it.

*Plus, check out this special offer from Nutrafol, just for Bulletproof Radio listeners!

Enjoy the show!

Bulletproof Executive Radio at the iTunes, App Store, iBookstore, and Mac App Store



Follow Along with the Transcript!

Click here to download a PDF of this transcript

*See full transcript below Show Notes section

Show Notes

*Special offer from Nutrafol just for Bulletproof Radio listeners! Go to Nutrafol.com/bulletproof for all the details on this incredible gift. Get your 1st month on them when you sign up to become a Nutrafol member.

  • 00:00 – Cool Fact of the Day: All about HAIR!
  • 00:45 — If you like this episode and our show, leave us a 5-star rating iTunes!
  • 01:15 – Dave introduces Roland Peralta, entrepreneur, hair loss expert and creator of Nutrafol
  • 02:25 – Visit Bulletproof Radio on YouTube!
  • 03:40 – Roland mentions listening to Dave’s BP Radio interview with Wim Hof
  • 05:30 – Roland explains what happens when we experience hair loss, how it’s multi-factorial – it’s not just genetics, mitochondria and environmental factors also have an impact
  • 10:00 – Inflammation and hair loss, how they are linked
  • 12:20 – The main triggers that disrupt the signaling that controls hair growth cycle
  • 14:12 – Roland and Dave dive deeper into all these hair loss triggers: inflammation, stress, thyroid issues, hormone level disruption, etc.
  • 20:05 – What is Ashwagandha? What this herb does, and why it’s a favorite ingredient in Nutrafol’s products
  • 23:40 – How the toxins in your body compromise the hair growth process
  • 25:35 – Why selenium is an important part of the hair growth equation
  • 28:19 – Glutathione, the mother of all antioxidants and how it helps detoxify the liver
  • 29:56 – How current hair loss medications are negatively impacting male hormones called androgens, and how Nutrafol works differently
  • 34:20 – Estrogen dominance, what it can do to the body, and how it can cause man boobs!
  • 37:52 – Iodine deficiency, and why you should start eating kelp
  • 40:30 – If your hair is thinning, something in your body is off; we often don’t notice until thinning is significant
  • 42:40 – Dave mentions Calcium D-Glucarate for liver detox
  • 43:18 – Lifestyle factors that can impact hair loss: light, vitamins, hair products, food
  • 46:29 – What’s the deal with gray hair?
  • 49:20 – Roland’s three most important pieces of advice for performing better in all aspects of life
  • 51:50 – Special offer from Nutrafol just for Bulletproof Radio listeners! Go to Nutrafol.com/bulletproof for all the details on this incredible gift. Get your 1st month on them when you sign up to become a Nutrafol member.
  • 53:40 – If you enjoyed today’s episode, check out Dave’s book “Headstrong” and leave a review on Amazon!

Full Transcript

Voiceover:            Bulletproof Radio: A state of high performance.

Dave:                        You’re listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today’s cool fact of the day is that next to bone marrow, your hair is the fastest-growing tissue in your entire body, and it can grow just about anywhere except for the palms of your hands, the soles of your feet, and on your lips and mucous membranes, although I’m sure with enough bio-hacking there’s probably some weird person out there working right now on how to get hair to grow out of your mucous membranes; just give them enough time. By the way, that’s not a bio-hack I’m planning to experiment with anytime soon.

If you like today’s episode, or any of the other 400+ episodes, I would be hugely grateful if you would take a second to go to iTunes, where you probably are right now, and leave a five star rating. It makes a huge difference for helping people find Bulletproof Radio, and just know that this show’s out there as a resource. And you should also know that you can get the podcast transcripts on the Bulletproof website for free, so if you don’t want to take notes on this episode or any other episode, you can just go get all the good stuff, and you can get all the links and everything else.

Today’s guest is Roland Peralta. He’s an entrepreneur who survived cancer and spent almost 30 years building different kinds of companies, and really a lot in the healthcare space, but what’s most interesting and the reason I have him on the show is that he’s focused a lot on something that I’m concerned about, something that almost everyone I know is concerned about, and it’s hair loss. In Roland’s case, for about 15 years after he got thyroid cancer and Rheumatoid Arthritis, something that I also used to have, I used to have Rheumatoid Arthritis, his hair started to go away. And he was like, “All right, this is something that’s hackable.” So he went out and tried just about everything out there, got some limited results, looked for why it’s happening, the different pathways for it, and hired a team of researchers and did what entrepreneurs do and go out and disrupt things. So he’s found some things that are clinically shown to work for hair loss.

I wanted to interview him today on Bulletproof Radio so I could figure out how to avoid hair loss. Just for the record, if you’re watching on YouTube … by the way, bulletproof.com/youtube will take you directly to the page for this. I’m 44, I have pretty legit hair, it’s relatively thick, you can look at that. It’s got a little bit of gray in there. My mom was entirely silver-haired at 24, and that’s a genetic thing, it runs in the family. But my dad, my grandfather, all my aunts and uncles on both sides are like cue balls. So something I’m doing seems to be working to keep my hair. I got a little bit of the forehead going on, but for 44, I’m pretty darn happy. My hair is thick and full, but I do an awful lot of stuff.

That said, I’m still concerned, and since I’m going to live to at least 180, well, I’d like to have hair when I’m that old. So that’s why Roland’s on the show. I’m going to learn what to do about my hair, you’re going to learn what to do about your hair. This is not just for men, though, because a lot of women, if you look on the Bulletproof forums, look on Facebook, a lot of women are dealing with this. And especially around perimenopause or around pregnancy, hormones change and hair gets thin and brittle and starts to fall out, and it can kind of freak you out. There’s all kinds of causes. We’re going to dig deep on that in this episode. It’s going to be a lot of fun. So, Roland, welcome to the show.

Roland:                   Thank you Dave, such a pleasure to be here. I wanted to say that recently I was traveling through Sweden and I had the pleasure of listening to your Wim Hof podcast, and that inspired me to actually take a workshop when he passed through New York a few weeks ago. So thanks for pointing me in that direction. That was an amazing experience.

Dave:                        Oh, that’s so cool. The Wim Hof episode was one of my favorites to record. Wim’s such a dynamo of a guy, and if you’re listening and you don’t know Wim Hof, he’s also known as the Ice Man. And you should listen to that episode, I don’t remember the episode number, but Bulletproof Radio. Wim, W-I-M, H-O-F, you can listen to that. And if you get a chance to go to one of his workshops, they’re super legit. So you had a good time doing cold water plunges and breathing-

Roland:                   Cold water, and the holotropic breathing was incredible. I actually was trying to tie back the breathing technique to improving hair health, and there’s definitely a connection because Wim focuses on stimulating the mitochondria through his breath technique, and that’s one of the things that we’re going to talk about today with respect to hair loss and why it’s so prevalent globally.

Dave:                        That’s super cool, because I mention Wim in Headstrong, my recent book about mitochondria, and if you’re listening to this and you haven’t heard, Headstrong just hit The New York Times science bestsellers list. And this is super unusual. It was between Homo Deuce and Sapiens and with The Undoing Project and some just amazing names that just completely blew me away, because normally authors like me and Tim Ferriss and just lots of other health authors, we generally hit the advice and how-to and maybe the business section, but I was not expecting to be listed as a bestselling science book. But it’s because mitochondria are so scientific, and there’s a direct connection with hair. You probably know more about that than I do, because I didn’t go into hair in the book, but there’s blood flow and things like that that breathing does. Before we get into the breathing stuff around hair and mitochondria, talk to me about what’s going on in hair loss. Most of us think, if I’m losing my hair, I’m screwed because of genetics. Is that the case?

Roland:                   Right. No, it’s actually not the case. And that’s part of the myth that we as a company have been trying to bust, and I think that removes hope from the table from a lot of people, both men and women. Basically the medical community has been painting this gloomy picture that genes control the hair growth cycle, and if you’ve been handed the wrong set of genes, you’re screwed. And we understand epigenetics as confirm that that’s not in fact the case. So here’s what I think, here’s what we think as a company, here’s what’s happening: We know that there have been no developments in the pharmaceutical sector in last 35-40 years. Rogaine, Minoxidil, was the last FDA-approved product to enter the market, and prior to that, it was Propecia, Finasteride, which is a DHT-blocker. It simply blocks the enzyme that is responsible for converting testosterone to DHT. And DHT is the hormone that is actually implicated in androgenic alopecia. It simply miniaturizes the follicles, shrinks them to the point where they become vellus hairs, and then you’re inevitably bald.

So what we know is that the pharmas have been focusing on monotargeting. Everyone’s looking for that magic bullet; everyone’s looking for a single pathway, a single molecule, that they think will simply turn hair loss off and turn hair growth back on. And so what we know, through our research, is that that’s the reason why nothing has been developed in the last 35-40 years. Everyone’s been looking in the wrong direction. What we know today is that hair loss is multifactorial. It’s not just the DHT hormone. So when Propecia targets DHT, it fails to take into consideration all the downstream pro-inflammatory cytokines that are created as a result of that hormone. One of them, for example, would be TNF-alpha. That’s the cytokine that actually attacks healthy tissue, that-

Dave:                        Let’s pause for a second there, because I think some people might not know what inflammatory cytokines are and all. So we talk about the genetic component of what’s going on here. The way to think about that is that your genes are the physical instructions for how to build the building, the hardware in your body, but your mitochondria have their own set of genes how to build the power plant and the wiring inside the building. So you can have one building that’s an office, one building that’s a manufacturing facility. They all have the same walls, they have the same genes, but the inside does different things. And the mitochondrial DNA is different, and it’s the mitochondria that are driving this whole epigenetic thing you mentioned. Epigenetics is, “Oh, look at this, the environment turns the genes on or off.” So your physical hardware will change based on the environment, and the thing that does it is the mitochondria. They’ll make more or less energy, they’ll do all these things, and what you’re saying here is that Big Pharma is always looking for the one thing. And unfortunately, when you find one thing, unfortunately, that one thing does many different things in the body.

So the hair loss products you talked about, the reason that I don’t use Finasteride, is that Finasteride is, in a meaningful percentage of guys, it basically turns off all androgen production. It chemically neuters you. And there are support groups for people out there who have been severely hormonally damaged because they were worried about hair loss. That’s kind of scary. And that’s not to say the drugs don’t work; most anti-aging guys like doctors, I should say guys and women, anti-aging physicians I work with, most of them for clients who are worried about this are still willing to prescribe those drugs. And they have a place, but they have systemic effects that are different than what you’re talking about. So that’s kind of the translation of the science there. And then let’s get into this inflammatory thing. So DHT, this hormone metabolite, it causes some inflammation. And you were saying it was [crosstalk 00:10:00] to the cytokines?

Roland:                   Correct. So Propecia, or Finasteride … Let’s focus on Finasteride because that’s the generic term. That only focuses on blocking the enzyme, but what it doesn’t do is it doesn’t clean up the mess, the inflammation, if you will. And what we know is that inflammation is actually responsible, inflammation plays a role in dysregulating the signaling molecules that are actually controlling the hair growth cycle. So in the presence of an inflammation begets inflammation. So once the inflammation begins, there’s an inflammatory cascade, there’s an inappropriate inflammatory response that’s chronic that leads to a dysregulation of signaling that actually controls the hair growth cycle: the cycle of rest, which is telogen; anagen, which is growth; catagen, which is essentially death; and exogen. So for any product to be effective, it has to take into consideration all of the factors, all of the factors that play a role in dysregulating the hair growth cycle.

So the hair follicle is very, very sensitive. It’s a mini-organ; it requires a tremendous amount of power. The hair follicle function is directly dependent upon mitochondrial activity, so without that power supply, you can have all the moving parts, you can have all the protein, all the nutrients you need, but you’re never going to manufacture hair if you don’t have the power behind that machinery to get those engines running. So some of those triggers we look at are stress hormones. And just to give you an idea, when we started the company, we chose ingredients that were able to target many of these triggers, ingredients that had clinical evidence of efficacy at very specific dosages. We’ve partnered with some very interesting R & D companies that were using biotech to extract some of these phytoactives that proved to be effective in targeting some of these triggers.

So here are some of the triggers that are ignored by the pharmas and by all products on the market: stress hormones, toxins that are accumulating in the liver, estrogen dominance, androgens, which we just talked about, the DHT hormone, micronutrient deficiencies, we have inflammation, which we just talked about, and finally free radicals, oxidative stress, ROS. So those are the triggers that ultimately dysregulate the signaling that controls the hair growth cycle. All of those factors are actually downregulating the hormones that modulate mitochondrial activity. Those hormones are T3, which is the thyroid hormone; progesterone, which is another. Two hormones that are essentially powerful regulators of mitochondrial activity. Without a sufficient supply of that fuel, the mitochondria will not be activated; that power supply is not going to be sufficient. And as you said, hair follicle, second to bone marrow, has the fastest turnover. And that turnover requires a tremendous amount of power. So we need to address those triggers, we need to remove those triggers, in order to create an optimal state for follicles to actually function.

Dave:                        I think that’s a huge list.

Roland:                   It is.

Dave:                        If I’m listening to this going, “God, I don’t want to lose my hair, but there’s like 14 things,” if I’m counting right. So let’s break that down into individual things. What you’re saying is all of these are controlling inflammation to some extent or another, and there’s different pathways. And it’s funny, because you were dealing with Rheumatoid Arthritis, and this is what happens, this is also why I wrote Headstrong. Inflammation is always caused by mitochondria, and anything you can do at any level to turn down inflammation makes everything better, including hair growth, including Rheumatoid Arthritis, including cell signaling and all that. So it’s kind of cool; by hacking your hair loss in the way you were talking about, you can have systemic effects that are anti-inflammatory. So your skin might look better too, or your liver might be happier, et cetera, et cetera. All right, so let’s start, maybe, with thyroid problems. And this affects women I think maybe at least as much as men. In fact, women get more Hashimoto’s than men, but it seems like hair loss from the thyroid is a bigger problem for women, but some guys get it as well. What’s going on there?

Roland:                   Yeah, very big problem. So we know that at the top of our list are stress hormones. We live in a society today where the fight-or-flight response is in constant flux. We’re constantly activating the fight-or-flight response, and as a consequence, the stress response is being taxed. So we’re overproducing cortisol, and what we know is that cortisol actually inhibits thyroid-stimulating hormone, which of course then inhibits the production of T4, which then inhibits T3. T3 then becomes an inactive form of the thyroid hormone RT3, Reverse T3. As you know, right? Go ahead. I’m sorry, Dave.

Dave:                        No, let’s pause and translate that for people who don’t know what T4 and T3 are. And it’s funny, because what you just described, the pathway, I have a slide like that that I use. I think I used it on Tony Robbins’s stage. But it’s exactly right. And so what’s happening, just if you’re listening in your car and you’re not a thyroid expert or you haven’t heard some of the podcast interviews about thyroid, just so the grounder information is there, is that your thyroid, when it’s working right, it gets a signal from the pituitary gland, something called TSH. And it tells the thyroid to make thyroid hormone, and it makes T4. And T4 doesn’t do anything until it’s converted to T3, which makes your mitochondria make energy, causes you to grow hair, makes you warm, and does all the things thyroid’s supposed to do. And unfortunately, if you’re stressed all the time, you won’t get enough T4, and instead of making T3, which is the good stuff, you make Reverse T3, which is inactive. So if you’re tweaking all the time because you’re worried about relationships or because of whatever stressors, what you’re saying here, Roland, is basically that your hair can start to fall out because you stopped making enough energy because you hijacked that T3 creation and made it the Reverse T3 that’s biologically useless, if not harmful.

Roland:                   Exactly, exactly. So with regards to hijacking, there’s another pathway with elevated cortisol, and that is the liver. Elevated cortisol causes the liver to produced higher levels of TBG, Thyroid Binding Globulin, and just as the name implies, the Free Thyroid Hormone is essentially bound and taken out of circulation, and as a consequence it now leads to inhibition of T3, higher levels of RT3. That leads to a progesterone downregulation, which then leads to estrogen dominance. So I’m going to draw an amazing circle for you by the time we’re done. You may get a little dizzy, but we’re going to paint a very clear picture for you. Dave, just to understand, we know that thyroid hormones play a major role in moving stem cells out of their niche, the hair follicle bulge. There’s a reservoir of stem cells that are contained in the hair bulge. We need thyroid hormones signaling for those to be activated to move from the bulge to become new follicles. So when you’re compromising T3 and progesterone as an example, you’re effectively compromising new follicle production. So everything we do, any solution that you introduce, has to address the root trigger. So in this case we’re talking about elevated stress hormones.

How do you lower elevated stress hormones? There are no pharmaceuticals in the market. We use a standardized ashwagandha. It’s the only ashwagandha standardized from root and leaf that is standardized to 10% with thianalydes. That was clinically proven to lower elevated cortisol significantly within a two-month period of time at a very low dose. So we reverse engineered a solution to the problem. So elevated cortisol is a major, it’s a silent killer, really. It’s probably the reason why I developed cancer in 2000. I lost my thyroid to cancer. So I take Levothyroxine and that is my source of T4, my daily source of T4. So managing stress levels is a very, very important strategy in hair loss prevention.

Dave:                        So managing stress, you can tell with meditation, heart rate variability, improving sleep, all these sorts of things. But sometimes people have a dysregulated cortisol rhythm, where, “Oh, my cortisol goes up at night when I’m supposed to be sleeping, and it’s down in the morning.” And if you suppress cortisol … How does someone listening know if they have too much cortisol or if they have cortisol at the wrong time? Or they may even have too low cortisol? What happens if you have low cortisol and you take this ashwagandha extract?

Roland:                   Sure. So ashwagandha is a stress adaptagen, and it’s a very smart plant. It brings the body back to homeostasis. It’s actually used, as well, in the event of adrenal fatigue where you’re not producing enough cortisol. And when you’re not producing enough cortisol, you’re going to end up being exhausted, you’re going to get sick more often. So ashwagandha plays a major role in bringing homeostasis back to the adrenals. So it’s a very intelligent plant. If you’re overproducing, helps bring it back to balance.

Dave:                        It’ll normalize.

Roland:                   Yeah.

Dave:                        And one of the ways I described adaptagens, and this is one of the most popular adaptagens, is that if you look at throttle response in a car … In a race car, I just got to drive a McLaren last week on a test drive, which was kind of cool. No, I’m not going to buy a McLaren, I was just at the event, and I pretended like I was going to so I could drive one. But they put it in track mode, and you touch the accelerator and it lurches forward, and you let off the accelerator and it slows down, and it’s like your foot’s just glued to the accelerator and there’s no delay. And that’s what it’s like when you’re on an adaptagen with your stress response. And when you drive a normal thing like a Toyota Prius, I used to have one of those too, you press the accelerator and three seconds later it’s like, “Rnnnghh,” and it kind of moves forward a little bit. There’s no power there and there’s a disconnect between when you press the accelerator and when something happens. So in your body, if you can tighten the stress response so that the stress hormones can go up when you need them and go down when you don’t need them, that will normalize things, and that’s kind of the picture I have in my head of what ashwagandha does.

Roland:                   Exactly, exactly. We love it. It’s one of our favorite ingredients in Nutrafol, because we know that stress is a major endocrine disruptor, and that’s the first place you start is how do I bring my adrenals back to normalization. And we’ve seen remarkable results on Nutrafol, and we know that that’s one of our star ingredients in the product.

Dave:                        I should mention, just because I haven’t yet, Nutrafol is the hair loss stuff that you make that it uses all the stuff, so that’s why you’re an expert. This is the stuff that you made for your own hair loss.

Roland:                   Exactly, exactly.

Dave:                        All right, so you’ve got ashwagandha in there because you’re dealing with the cortisol cause of this. So for people listening, if you’re not using any supplements at all, lowering stress through the normal stress reduction techniques, there’s a bunch in Headstrong, a bunch in Bulletproof Diet, a bunch of episodes on that. Meditate, sit in a cave, stop eating foods that cause inflammation; all sorts of things. But lowering stress is a great strategy for keeping your hair, and if your hair is falling out like crazy and you’re in a bad relationship and you hate your boss, well, there you go, right? So what’s another thing?

Roland:                   So elevated cortisol also is a potent trigger of inflammation; and again, since inflammation begets inflammation, you now have activated that chronic, inappropriate inflammatory response that leads to further dysregulation of the hair growth cycle. So you have multiple pathways that are being activated, or de-activating stem cell differentiation, essentially compromising healthy optimal hair growth cycling caused by the consequences of elevated cortisol. So it’s a very, very important target to address when you’re developing a hair loss strategy, and that was a big part of what we did as a company. The next item on our list was toxins.

Dave:                        Toxins, right. Define “toxins” the way you talk about it. A lot of people throw the word around. It’s really matters, so get down on that one. What is it?

Roland:                   Sure. So I’m talking about heavy metals, we’re talking about used hormones, mutated hormones, excess hormones that compromise liver productivity. We’re talking about xenoestrogens; faux estrogens that are from the environment, from food supply, from products that we use daily. Those toxins compromise liver function and what we know is that the thyroid hormone, the beauty hormone T3, is actually produced in the liver. So for T4 to be converted to the active form of T3, we need a good, clean, healthy liver. So those toxins compromise the actual sufficient production of T3. What happens in the case of heavy metals? We know that mercury binds to selenium. Selenium is one of the ingredients in Nutrafol. I’m only talking about ingredients, about consequences that I know that some of the ingredients that we are using address.

So we know that selenium binds to mercury, and mercury is very toxic and contributes to mitochondrial dysfunction. Basically, it’s evil. Mitochondria hates mercury. It causes decay, as you know, it increases ROS, it’s a real problem. So evolution designed us so that the body doesn’t care about hair. Hair is secondary to everything. Evolution says the organs come first, we got to protect the organs. Selenium, unfortunately, plays a major role in converting T4 to T3. So if the body has to choose, “Do I focus on removing the mercury from the body with the limited selenium that I have?” Because selenium is deficient in soil, it’s no longer abundant in food supply. “Or do I allocate my limited selenium reserve to converting T4 to T3?” So if you have a toxic liver, obviously the body chooses for you. It’s going to choose to chelate the heavy metals and ignore the conversion to the beauty hormone. That’s hair loss, that’s thinning, that’s compromised hair quality. All of that that’s happening on the back end of the human body is compromising hair quality and hair production. So that’s selenium, a very, very important mineral in the equation.

Dave:                        One of the places that you can get selenium is by eating Brazil nuts, and I am not a fan of Brazil nuts for a variety of reasons. They’re almost always moldy, they’re a very high mold crop, and you can usually smell it in Brazil nuts. So you can eat one and be like, “Why do I have a blood sugar crash two hours later?” It’s because your mitochondria are trying to deal with all those toxins instead of benefiting from the selenium. They’re asking for extra sugar so they can mobilize and oxidize and excrete those things, and then you have to pee, and you wonder, “Why is my Brazil nut not making me happy?”

The other thing is Brazil nut trees have super deep roots that go really, really deep, which can be a good thing. You want that in your cacao trees. But in this case, what they tend to do is they tend to take up radioactive elements from the soil. So I don’t find a Brazil nut or two a day to be a sustainable strategy. If you can get really good, clean, fresh ones that are refrigerated, maybe; but you just don’t know what you’re getting with food sources of minerals, and a lot of foods that say they have minerals in them don’t. They had minerals 25 or 50 or 70 years ago when they measured it, but the soil is different now. So I tend to look at selenium as a supplementation strategy. Are you using selenomethionine, the selenium bound to an amino acid?

Roland:                   Yes, exactly, exactly. So we know that liver toxicity, it’s important that that’s one of the things that we include in some of the testing that we encourage our clients to do. You should be testing for selenium, you should be doing the 24-hour cortisol test. We’re using ZRT labs, we love ZRT labs, to do a lot of this testing. What we know is that, back to liver toxicity, glutathione is the mother of all anti-oxidants, and glutathione plays a major role in detoxifying the liver. We have multiple ingredients in Nutrafol that actually boost, naturally boost, glutathione production in the body, and that’s curcumin, ashwagandha, and kelp. Kelp is obviously a rich source of iodine, and iodine has the ability to increase the body’s production of glutathione. So those ingredients aid in detoxifying the liver. Very, very important.

Dave:                        That’s a good healthy stack, and I got to do a quick plug here: You can also take Glutathione Force, our liposomal capsules. They don’t taste like clove frosting anymore; no syringes, because we finally found a stable way to get it into a capsule. So that’s a direct glutathione support. I do that, and we also do an iodine supplement that you can take directly, which is something that I would recommend with a kelp source. In fact, it is kelp-based. So those are Bulletproof supplements that are not designed for hair loss, but support these same pathways.

Roland:                   Exactly, exactly. Very good. Where were we, Dave?

Dave:                        We were talking about toxins and making the liver work by increasing glutathione.

Roland:                   Oh, yes.

Dave:                        Okay, so you got your glutathione levels up because you’ve included some ingredients that do that in Nutrafol. So step one: drop cortisol, step two: increase detox. Should we talk about androgens or estrogens next?

Roland:                   Let’s talk about androgens.

Dave:                        All right. Androgens, the so-called male hormones.

Roland:                   Right. So we know that, obviously, as I said earlier, Finasteride targets the androgen hormone DHT, but there are very serious consequences to using Finasteride as a DHT inhibitor, and that is sexual dysfunction is one of them. My business partner, who’s a model in his late 20s, was working as a model to put himself through engineering school, suffered in silence for eight years. He suffered silently from sexual dysfunction from using Finasteride to keep his hair. He had to choose between not getting laid or getting laid off, and he was another … Millions of men are taking this drug, and there are class-action lawsuits in the European Union. In Canada, I believe, there are class-action lawsuits against the maker of Propecia.

Dave:                        Canadians are so polite, they almost never sue. It’s amazing. They say they’re sorry. It’s amazing.

Roland:                   Sorry. And that’s actually how he and I connected. He reached out and he said, “I have a confession. I’m having serious side effects from a DHT inhibitor that I’m taking.” So we reverse-engineered the mechanism of action. Well, what does Finasteride do? It blocks DHT. We identified a nutraceutical grade saw palmetto which has the ability to not only block the conversion of testosterone to DHT, but it actually binds to the receptors that DHT would normally attach itself to. So Propecia doesn’t do that. Finasteride can’t attach itself to the receptors; it simply blocks the enzyme. So the beauty of saw palmetto, which is one of the ingredients in our product, is that it actually increases nitric oxide, which improves vasodilation. It was used in traditional medicine as an aphrodisiac. It works against inflammation, it lowers CRP, C-Reactive Protein, which is a marker for inflammation. That’s basically the beauty of displacing pharmaceuticals with naturals. Once you understand the mechanism of action, you can identify botanicals, naturals, that are capable of doing what pharmas do. I was listening to one of your podcasts when I was in Sweden, as I was telling you. Dr. Mercola came onboard and was talking about Metformin and berberine. And that inspired me to do some research, and sure enough, my mother, whose insulin was out of control, they were about to put her on a pharma, I put her on berberine and she’s doing so much better. Anyway, so that’s an example of-

Dave:                        Nice.

Roland:                   Right? Of using-

Dave:                        Get her on Bulletproof coffee and you won’t even recognize her. It’s incredible what getting brain octane in there as an alternate energy source. Because when you have Type 2 Diabetes, you just aren’t using sugar effectively, and your cells are starving for energy, you get the energy from fat and it’s like a whole ‘nother thing. Just put brain octane in her cereal. It doesn’t matter. Just see what happens; it’s incredible.

Roland:                   I’m on it. I’m her doctor. She loves my health tips. So we were discussing androgens, but we also know this year there was a study released … And this is why Finasteride is an archaic way of treating hair loss, because again, it ignores so many of the consequences of DHT. What we learned this year is that the DHT hormone actually downregulates the signaling that controls the hair growth cycle. So not only are you miniaturizing follicles, but DHT hormone is actually downregulating the signaling that’s controlling the hair growth cycle. So Propecia, or rather Finasteride, can’t quite act on that pathway. We were talking about estrogen dominance was the next bucket, right?

Dave:                        Right.

Roland:                   And that’s a major problem in the world today. I’m sure you’ve talked about it on the show.

Dave:                        Not just talked about it. When I weighed 300 pounds, I had way more estrogen than my mom, and way less testosterone too. I really did; it was kind of embarrassing. And all the guys in my family-

Roland:                   What size bra were you wearing?

Dave:                        Well, that’s the problem. All the guys in my family have man-boobs, every one of them, and even to this day, you give me any pregnenolone or DHEA which are common anti-aging hormones, you give me those, I grow boobs. And my body aromatizes … I swear, there are women who probably wish they had estrogen processing like I do. And I don’t believe that’s terribly environmental, given all the stuff I do. And I supplement my testosterone, and I block its conversion, but it’s been a constant challenge. I think that is somewhat genetic. There’s an epigenetic component. But to this day, if I do the wrong things, within two weeks I can have man-boobs, and if I walk into a moldy building, systemic inflammation happens and I’ll have man-boobs the next day. That’s not estrogen, although there are synthetic estrogens in toxic mold; that’s just direct inflammation. So if you see me walking around looking like I need to be wearing a bra, it’s probably because I ate the wrong thing or something. Anyway, full disclosure: We’ve talked about my man-boobs on Bulletproof Radio. That’s what estrogen does for you. It sucks.

Roland:                   But it also … Here’s what we’ve learned. So we have a number of ingredients in Nutrafol that help lower estrogen dominance, and we know that a very recent study confirmed that estrogen in excess acts as a braking mechanism to the hair growth schedule. It actually shortens the anagen phase, which-

Dave:                        What about for women? This has got to be a problem, because women with thinning hair have a similar situation. They just have more estrogen. They have less of a DHT problem, though.

Roland:                   We believe that female pattern baldness, or women who are thinning, showing early thinning, are estrogen-dominant.

Dave:                        Exactly.

Roland:                   Yeah. If they’re estrogen-dominant, it’s because they’re not producing enough progesterone, right?

Dave:                        Yes.

Roland:                   So A, they’re not clearing the estrogen out of their liver fast enough, because the liver has to eliminate. It neutralizes and eliminates all of that excess estrogen. If the liver is sluggish and it’s not prime, you have a problem. Those hormones are going to get recycled back into the body. So elevated cortisol leads to estrogen dominance. Iodine deficiency leads to estrogen dominance. Those are two major culprits at the root of … Estrogen dominance, as you know, is implicated in breast cancer and ovarian cancer. It’s a problem, and it’s one of those things that women should be testing for: Am I accumulating more estrogen than I should be in my body? Am I eliminating it fast enough? Is it because my progesterone is compromised because I have a higher RT3 ratio to my T3? Where’s the trigger? Is it because I have an iodine deficiency? Once you identify that pathway, you’re able to maybe address it. So kelp is a terrific source of iodine, it’s a terrific chelator, it’s a natural chelator, it chelates excess estrogens, it chelates faux estrogens that accumulate in the liver. That’s something that everyone should be testing for. Iodine testing should be mandatory in society today. I think you agree with that.

Dave:                        It’s one of the largest causes for drop in IQ globally is a lack of iodine. You want to have kids who have the IQ they’re capable of, you better be getting enough iodine. And it’s kind of funny, because I tell people to use Himalayan salt. Most people are getting their iodine from iodized salt, which is full of other crap. So if you’re doing Himalayan salt the way I recommend, you need to be on an iodine supplement, and there’s various ways to get it. It’s in Nutrafol, you can buy the iodine supplements that I make, you can also paint iodine on your skin and it’ll absorb pretty well that way. But the bottom line is you do need iodine to perform well, and there’s some people out there who are recommending, this guy called Brownstein recommends 15 milligrams a day, relatively high doses. But 150 micrograms would be kind of the minimum, and I tend to take about three of those kind of pills a day.

Roland:                   Right. And I think the problem is so severe that if you are highly deficient and you’re only ingesting 150 micrograms a day, you’re not serving your-

Dave:                        It’s not enough.

Roland:                   Yeah, it’s not. So we have a responsibility to look at iodine sufficiency. We know that because estrogen dominance is such a problem in society today, we need to … Curcumin is an anti-estrogenic. We use BCM-95 in Nutrafol as well. Iodine is an anti-estrogenic. We source our kelp from the northern parts of Iceland in an area that the government declared off-limits to ships, so it’s considered organic because it’s a sustainably harvested kelp from the cleanest waters in the world. So anti-estrogenic protocols are highly important to-

Dave:                        For men and women, you’re saying.

Roland:                   Both, yeah. Exactly. Just for overall health, because we say that the old expression, “Outer beauty is a reflection of inner wellness,” it is so true. Hair is simply a reflection of how you’re doing. It’s almost your report card. If your hair is thinning, if your hair is falling out, something is off. And that requires a better look. And part of the problem with Western medicine today, Dave, as you know, is that hair is secondary. Western medicine is reactive. It’s not proactive. We’re not proactively looking for reasons why you may be thinning. The rule is that if you are thinning, you typically lose 50% of your hair before you even notice that it’s thinned. Because you have so much hair on your scalp, you have to lose a lot of it before you even know that it has thinned. Scary numbers.

Dave:                        Yeah, it’s pretty scary, and no one wants to deal with thinning hair. You see it in the drain, like, “Yikes.” I’ve gone through cycles, historically. There’s times when I’ve been really unhealthy, where you’re like, “Wow.” You can grab a handful of hair and it falls out. But then the next month it seems like it’s completely fine. What’s going on with that?

Roland:                   That could be stress-related. Typically you lose 100 to 200 hairs a day. So the media says, “It’s normal to lose 100 to 200 hairs a day.” But it’s not normal not to regrow 100 to 200 hairs a day. And so that statistic, everyone thinks it’s normal to lose 100 hairs a day. Two years later, you’re thin. You’ve lost 50% of your hair. How did that happen? So stress triggers a sudden shedding, shocks the hair follicles. It’s called telogen effluvium, where’s there’s a sudden loss of hair. You could have lots of clumps of hair falling out. Most people recover from that. We always recommend Nutrafol because it has powerful stress adaptagens to help bring you back to homeostasis. But yeah, I’m sorry, Dave. You were saying?

Dave:                        I’m still thinking about the estrogen thing. One thing that I didn’t mention, we make a supplement called calcium-D glucarate that I take specifically to help the liver get rid of extra estrogen. And this is something that also deals with other toxins different than the glutathione pathway. So I got to say, part of my own strategy for just detox in general is calcium-d glucarate. And we just launched that, because it’s an almost unknown supplement, but it’s a very powerful one that would work very well for what we’re talking about. All right, so we talked about the different stress things, why you would have either clumps of hair or just times when a lot more hair falls out than others. Let’s talk about some of the lifestyle things. What about sunlight? Good or bad?

Roland:                   Both, because the hair follicle has vitamin D receptors. And this is so interesting that people underestimate … I think that physicians downplay the importance of vitamin D. So if you’re vitamin D deficient, there’s a range. There’s a low range, the lower end of normal, and the higher end of normal. That range is so vast and everyone is so unique. With respect to hair follicles, you need to have sufficient vitamin D. Vitamin D plays a major role in signaling the molecules that control the hair growth cycle. So vitamin D almost acts as an activator, if you will. And I know that vitamin D plays a role in mitochondrial activation as well. So you need sun, of course, but not too much sun, because sun produces higher degrees of free radicals, which leads to oxidative stress, which leads to inflammation. Inflammation, we know, begets inflammation. It dysregulates the hair growth cycle. So we use vitamin D in Nutrafol as well; that’s part of the entire formulation. So very, very important, getting some sun; but not overdoing it, for fear of excess free radicals and oxidative stress.

Dave:                        Got it. What about hair gel, hairspray, hair dye, all that kind of stuff? What’s that going to do?

Roland:                   Yeah, that’s another potent trigger of inflammation. A lot of these products that are used for styling are definitely implicated in increasing free radical production. So you want to try to stay away from sodium, SLS is a great example. That’s clinically proven to irritate the skin. Why would you use a shampoo on your hair if it’s going to irritate your skin? And that irritation triggers a reaction. It’s a free radical oxidative stress inflammatory response. So yeah; a lot of these products, you want to be careful not to cover your scalp. Some people who use hair gels, suddenly they’re smearing gels on their scalp and they’re basically suffocating the follicle. Follicle needs a little air. So yeah, we recommend trying to use natural products that don’t have known irritants in them. Stay away from the products with the parabens, et cetera.

Dave:                        That seems like really, really good advice, just to not put crap on your hair. The general rule that started with my very first book called The Better Baby Book, and that I’ve reiterated in Bulletproof Diet, and most recently Headstrong, it’s if you wouldn’t put it in your mouth, don’t put it on your skin; and that goes for your scalp as well, and that seems to work really well. So we’re coming up on the end of the interview, but I’ve got to ask you, even though it’s not your main focus here: All right, my mom, gray at early 20s, right? And I’ve had a little bit of gray since I was 30, and I have just a little … I don’t know, what’s Storm, the X-Men character … I got a little bit of that thing going on. But I’m 44. I know a lot of anti-aging doctors dye their own hair. That’s the biggest thing you can do. I’m not dying my hair. Maybe I will someday because who knows, but I actually value feeling young; most importantly, having youth energy and living to 180. But I also would like to look like I’m 44, not 144, at some point in my life. So I’m not vain, but I also know that how you look helps with how you feel. So what’s up with the gray hair thing?

Roland:                   Right, so I’m happy you asked. I love sharing this one. So gray hair is nothing less than a reflection of a reduction of catalase enzyme, one of the more potent antioxidants. A by-product of metabolic process is that you produce hydrogen peroxide. Catalase is charged with the responsibility of breaking down H2O2 into H2O and O2. So as we get older, as we age, our antioxidant levels begin to drop. So we need to use antioxidants like ashwagandha, curcumin, saw palmetto, tocotrienols, those are ingredients in Nutrafol, all increase catalase enzyme. So the anti-aging strategy is boost your catalase enzyme production. That’s really it. That was a study done at a university in the UK about two years ago where they conclusively proved that H2O2 played a major role in essentially bleaching out the hair pigment centers.

Dave:                        Well, it’s funny; if you want to bleach your hair, you put hydrogen peroxide in your hair to get the bleach blond look.

Roland:                   Right, that’s exactly right.

Dave:                        That turns it more of a yellow color versus white. So, I’ve been familiar with the hydrogen peroxide thing for a while. I usually rinse my mouth with a mild hydrogen peroxide. I have for many years, and I’ve often wondered, is that a part of my gray? But my gray is less than it runs in my family, but what you could do is you could reduce hydrogen peroxide or you could increase catalase, and ideally doing both is a good strategy.

Roland:                   Exactly, exactly.

Dave:                        Awesome.

Roland:                   So hopefully 10 years we’ll see you, you’ll have a lot less gray.

Dave:                        I’m working on it. It wouldn’t surprise me. I’m also doing stem cells and all this other crazy stuff, so when you see me next year, I should look like I’m maybe 35. I’m going to age backwards for a while. I do that every 10 years, age backwards 15 years. Good strategy? Benjamin Button, here we come.

Roland:                   You look great. You look great.

Dave:                        We’re up on the end of the interview, which means I get to ask you the final Bulletproof question, and that is: If someone came to you tomorrow, and said, given everything you know, not just about hair, but everything in your life; and as a cancer survivor and successful entrepreneur, you’ll have a different aspect on this, or a different perspective than a lot of people. Look, I want to perform better at everything I do as a human being. What are the three most important pieces of advice you have for me? What would you offer them?

Roland:                   Oh, I would say take a position. I love research. Read the research. If you have a health concern, and you see studies that imply “may,” “could,” “possibly,” trust your intuition. Take a position. I did; it saved my life. I was told I was going to end up in a wheelchair from my Rheumatoid Arthritis based on the progression of that disease, and I fought the system, I did the research. I trusted a protocol at NIH that had been discovered around the time that I had been diagnosed; and I, against my doctor’s orders, fired all my doctors. I took a position, and I said, “I believe in what I’m reading. I trust the research.” And today I’m alive and well because I chose to fight; rather, I chose to trust my intuition. So trust your intuition. Take a position. There’s always a fork in a road. Choose the fork that feels best and right for you. Did I answer that question?

Dave:                        That was one, take a position. You got two more. Three pieces of advice.

Roland:                   Trust your intuition. Really, it’s research, research, research. Know thy body, learn everything that needs to be understood about the mechanisms of action. Once you understand mechanisms of action, you can proactively treat yourself and identify botanical natural solutions to counter some of the problems that you’re dealing with. So I would say absolute research. Read less fiction and read more scientific literature.

Dave:                        All right, I like that one. Sounds like something I’d do.

Roland:                   Right, right.

Dave:                        All right, did we get three out of that? We had …

Roland:                   I think there’s three somewhere in there, but-

Dave:                        Intuition, research, and research, I think I counted. Awesome.

Roland:                   Yeah.

Dave:                        Now, let’s see. You offered, at the beginning of the show before we started recording, you said that you were up for giving away a thousand bottles of Nutrafol just for Bulletproof Radio listeners, kind of as a gift, which I’m super cool with. So if people go to nutrafol.com/bulletproof, or use code bulletproof or something, the first thousand people before August 31st, 2017, you’ll give them a free bottle for, I’m guessing, signing up.

Roland:                   As part of their membership, exactly.

Dave:                        Okay, so you sign up just to become a member, which is basically a monthly thing. So anyway, if you want to try it, I’m sure it’s cancelable. I don’t know all the details, it’ll be on the website, you can go check that out. But it’s a cool way to try Nutrafol and see if it’s going to help you with hair thinning or hair loss, and this is something that a huge number of people ask me about, and something that I pay attention to, and I believe in the four-pronged approach that you’re looking at here. Deal with stress, deal with toxins, deal with estrogen, and deal with androgens. Those are valid mechanisms of action through all the research that I’ve done, so it’s a cool thing. So go to nutrafol.com/bulletproof, and you can get your free bottle if you’re one of the first thousand, and if not, you’ll do something else nice for them, I’m sure. But it’s a gift for you, and that’s kind of a cool deal.

Roland:                   Dave, if they are not able to get their free bottle, there’s 350 doctors nationwide that carry our product. We have dermatologists and plastic surgeons all over the states. There’s someone somewhere near you that will always have it on their shelf for your listeners to pick up on the fly. And yeah, thank you.

Dave:                        You’re so welcome. If you enjoyed today’s episode, you know what to do. You could just go out and do something nice for someone else and just make the world a better place, because hey, that’s cool; that’s why I do the show. You could also head on over to Amazon and leave a review for Headstrong or The Bulletproof Diet. One of the easiest things you can do for an author like me is you can leave a positive four star review on Amazon. Or five star, six star; however many stars they have. But when you do that, I read all those reviews, and so do so many other people. It’s one of the most impactful ways. You can take about 15 seconds of your time as opposed to the 2 or 3,000 hours that went into writing a book like that for me. So I would sure be grateful if you’d be willing to do that; and if not, share the show, share this episode, do something cool, and have a wonderful day. I’ll see you on the next episode.

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Biohacking Your Brain With Precision Medicine, Genomics, Psychedelics, Advanced Nutritional Strategies & Much More! – Ben Greenfield Fitness


Drs. Matt Dawson and Mike Mallin are the head honcho docs at Wild Health, with locations in Versailles, KY, and Bend, OR. I first interviewed these guys in the episode “How To Use Precision Medicine To Enhance Athletic Performance, Defy Aging, Balance Hormones, Fix The Heart & Much More.” then again in “Why Your DNA Is Worthless (& What You Need To Focus On Instead)“.

In this episode, they’re back to talk all things brain optimization, brain biohacking, and a medical-based precision genomics approach to upgrading the brain.

Dr. Matt Dawson is a precision medicine physician in Lexington, KY, co-host of the Wild Health Podcast, and has been obsessed with performance optimization as long as he can remember. He received scholarships to play two sports in college even with “minimal talent” because of his voracious reading and implementation of any fitness or nutritional techniques that would give him an edge. Dr. Dawson continued that obsession in medical school, and as a physician, he has won national awards for education, innovation, and leadership. He has lectured in over 20 countries and trained thousands of other physicians through live lectures, online education, two textbooks, and an educational app. Dr. Dawson combines his training in genomics and functional medicine to give personalized, precise medical guidance. His obsession with performance optimization has morphed from, initially athletic, to now mental performance and longevity.

Whether you’re a professional athlete or a grandparent optimizing your mental clarity and mobility to keep up with your grandkids, Dr. Dawson is passionate about helping you perform at your absolute peak.

Dr. Mike Mallin is a physician in Bend, OR who is obsessed with health performance and precision medicine and is co-founder of the Wild Health Podcast. He completed medical school in South Carolina and trained in emergency medicine in Salt Lake City, UT, where he competed in several ultramarathons and found his love for the mountains and performance. Mike currently practices in Bend, OR, and Lexington, KY in his precision medicine clinics. He is also co-founder of the Ultrasound Podcast, an educational podcast that has taught thousands of physicians all over the world how to use ultrasound.

In this podcast, we discuss the September brain biohacking event coming up in Lexington, KY, September 26-28 (use code BEN to save 20%).

During this discussion, you’ll discover:

-Matt and Mike’s work on the frontlines of the COVID-19 pandemic…10:30

-Tests that determine cognitive function…19:10

  • “No biohacking before the basics”
  • DNA, genomics, etc. to get a full picture of the health
  • Scoring system takes into account cardiovascular health, insulin resistance, inflammation, cancer risks, and other metrics
  • You get to a certain point when you’re considered “optimized” and ready for more advanced brain tests
  • Examine both genotype and phenotype
  • APOe4 most associated with Alzheimer’s; many more SNPs associated with Alzheimer’s
  • Don’t examine specific SNPs individually
  • Tissue necrosis factor (TNF) + APOe4 gene elevates risk of Alzheimer’s by 6x
  • TNF levels are determined by genetics
  • Neurotransmitter balances are determined from a genetics standpoint
  • KetoFlex 12/3 (The Bredesen Protocol) – thinking of Alzheimer’s as a metabolic disease
  • Efficacy of ketones on the brain
    • Insulin degrading enzyme and interleukin 1B correlate with insulin levels in response to ketones
    • The wrong genes lead to a worsening of conditions when ingesting ketones
    • Genomics as a predictive model
  • CNS Vital Sign Test: attention, memory, processing speed, etc. to determine appropriate further tests
  • Brainscape
  • Lumosity
  • CNS Tap test
  • Brain HQ app
  • N-Back training app
  • DUTCH test
  • Organic acids test (Organix® Dysbiosis Profile (Organic Acids)-Genova Kit)

-The link between immune function and the brain…39:00

-Recommended brain optimization modalities and strategies…43:30

-How to and how not to use plant medicines for cognitive function and brain health…57:15

-Peptides, ketamine, synthetic substitutes for plant medicines…1:04:20

  • Dihexa if BDNF SNPs are low
  • Semax
  • Downsides to any compound, monitor properly

-About the event being held at the Kentucky Castle this September…1:06:00

-And much more!

Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.

Resources from this episode:

Wild Health:

– Podcasts and articles on peptides:

Podcast with Drs. Joel Dudley and Chris Mason of Onegevity Health

– “Better Living Through Science: Two Advanced Biohacking Strategies & “Stacks” For Enhancing Sleep & Meditation.”

– Gear:

– Tests:

– Other resources:

Episode sponsors:

Kion Cold Thermogenesis Challenge: If you’ve never tried cold showers or cold plunges, this is a great way to “dip your toes” into the practice of cold thermo with the support of thousands of others. The deadline to register is August 2nd, so act fast!

Organifi Glow: A plant-based beverage that helps support the body’s natural ability to produce collagen, smooth fine lines and wrinkles, and protect the skin from sun exposure and toxins. Receive a 20% discount on your entire order when you use discount code: “BENG20”

Perfect Keto: Perfect Keto helps make a low-carb lifestyle easier with snacks and supplements formulated by Dr. Anthony Gustin, plus the best low-carb recipes and information. For 20% off your order + free shipping, use discount code: BGF20

Water and Wellness: The best solution for clean and safe drinking water. Water and Wellness also offers an amazing line of essential water additives such as Quinton Marine plasma which contain over 78 trace minerals and elements from the ocean to help restore your biological-terrain. Get 15% off your order when you use discount code: GREENFIELD

Do you have questions, thoughts or feedback for Matt Dawson, Mike Mallin or me? Leave your comments below and one of us will reply!

Ask Ben a Podcast Question

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BMX Superstar, Brain Tumor Survivor and Advocate: Josh Perry’s Amazing Story of Triumph


Why you should listen –

Professional BMX athlete Josh Perry was just hitting his career stride when he was diagnosed with the first of three brain tumors at just 21 years old. But even after suffering through brain surgery and recovery, his spirit stayed strong, his resilience stayed intact, and he came out on the other side of his health odyssey with more fire and gratitude than ever before. Josh joins Dave to discuss how BMX saved his life, how he harnessed the power of holistic nutrition and new technologies like Gamma Knife radiosurgery to fight cancer, how to be your own best health advocate, and how he’s sharing his story of survival to advocate for brain health awareness. It’s an inspiring and cool story of triumph you won’t want to miss!

Enjoy the show!

Bulletproof Executive Radio at the iTunes, App Store, iBookstore, and Mac App Store


Follow Along with the Transcript!

Click here to download a PDF of this transcript

*See full transcript below Show Notes section

Show Notes

Josh Perry: Links and Info

Website: www.joshperrybmx.com

YouTube: youtube.com/joshperrybmx

Instagram: @JoshperryBMX

Blog: www.dailybrainstorms.com


  • 00:34 – Cool Fact of the Day: The hippocampus…and shrinkage!
  • 01:30 – BP Radio is LIVE in Chicago! If you enjoyed today’s episode, check out Dave’s book “Headstrong” and leave a review on Amazon!
  • 02:30 – Dave intros Josh Perry, professional BMX athlete, brain tumor survivor and holistic brain health advocate
  • 04:18 – Josh discusses his brain tumor diagnosis, how BMX saved his life, and how to be your own best health advocate
  • 06:58 – Why Josh says you should trust your gut and find a doctor who believes you
  • 09:00 – Josh’s diet then…and now
  • 10:10 – Josh’s emotional reaction to his cancer diagnosis, and how it changed him
  • 11:29 – The brain surgery experience
  • 13:28 – Josh’s post-surgery gratitude
  • 14:33 – And then the tumors came back…
  • 15:28 – Why Josh rejected radiation treatments, and instead turned to holistic nutrition and Gamma Knife radiosurgery
  • 17:50 – Why you should question your doctor, and be your own best advocate
  • 18:25 – Listening to your body and your intuition – and the difference between intuition and fear
  • 19:34 – Flow states…how athletes do what they do
  • 20:33 – When and why Josh changed his diet for the better, and the impact it’s made
  • 22:43 – Where Josh’s resilience comes from
  • 23:56 – Josh recommends David Perlmutter’s “Grain Brain” + he discusses his interest in nutrition and how it impacts his gut and brain health
  • 27:25 – What’s next for Josh…his bigger mission in life and his gratitude
  • 29:25 – Josh’s three most important pieces of advice for performing better in all aspects of life

Full Transcript

Narrator:                                 Bulletproof radio. A state of high performance.

Dave Asprey:                          All right. Here we go. You’re listening to Bulletproof radio with Dave Asprey. Woo. Today’s cool fact of the day is that over time your hippocampus shrinks if you’re normal. Hippocampus is a part of the brain, it’s a relatively sizeable part of the brain, and as you age it naturally shrinks. But if you do it right, it doesn’t have to shrink and because of all the stuff that’s in Headstrong and all the stuff frankly that’s in the Bulletproof diet, and meditation, and just the entire lifestyle, I’ve actually got 86 percentile hippocampal volume for my age, which means in my n=1 study, you actually can keep your brain from shrinking as you age. And I would highly recommend that you start doing that because who wants a shriveled up old brain? That doesn’t sound like very much fun. Right? Your brain is kind of shriveled up anyway, that’s how they look, but anyway. We won’t go there.

This is an episode of Bulletproof radio, if you’re listening in your car, that we’re recording live in Chicago, which is a fantastic thing because you’ll hear the studio audience, which is awesome. Studio audience, thank you guys.

And as usual, if this show’s helpful, if you’d leave us a five-star review, that’d be cool. But to be perfectly honest, as I’m recording this show, literally a half-hour before, I just got the news that Headstrong, my new book, hit the New York Times bestseller list, making me a two times New York Times bestselling author. That means, whether you’re listening in your car or at work or here in the audience, your job is to go to Amazon and leave a review. Because if you leave a review on Amazon for the book, it’s one of the simplest things you could do to say thanks for the thousands of hours that go into writing it. Doesn’t cost you anything. But it really, really matters. I read every single review on Amazon. So if you take a minute to do that, I’d appreciate the heck out of it.

Now, today’s guest on the show is Josh Perry. Josh is a professional BMX athlete who’s currently one of three Americans in the top ten for … How do you say this Josh? FISC?

Josh Perry:                              It’s the Fisc in UCI BMX series.

Dave Asprey:                          Alright Fisc. Is that French?

Josh Perry:                              Yes. It’s actually originated in France.

Dave Asprey:                          See I live in Canada and I still can’t pronounce French words. All of Canada is now shaming me right now except the left half where they don’t know how to speak French anyway. Now I’ve offended the right half. Oh my God, what’ll I do. And the interesting thing about Josh, aside from the fact that he’s top in the world in his sport, or at least one of the top. I’m sure the top ten are always wrestling over who’s the real top right?

Josh Perry:                              Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Alright. No ego among athletes. But, when Josh was 21, an MRI showed he had an eight centimeter tumor in his brain. And for non-Canadians, eight centimeters translates to big ass.

Josh Perry:                              Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          And you had the tumor successfully removed but two more grew back post-surgery. And then through your own research, you started looking at what health really is and what performance really is and you created a personal treatment plan with diet, mindset, lifestyle and a bunch of targeted medical procedures. So, what we’re gonna talk about is being a pro athlete and not just that, but an extreme sport pro athlete, and at the same time realizing that you have sort of a life threatening situation here. I want to chat with you in the show today about what that was like. So now that you’ve been properly introduced, guys, welcome to Josh.

Josh Perry:                              Thank you.

Dave Asprey:                          How in the heck do you find out you have an eight centimeter tumor in your head?

Josh Perry:                              So it was March of 2010. I was actually training and I tried a trick in the foam pit. That’s like gymnastics. We learn tricks in the foam pit and then we take it to the ramp. I did about ten in the foam pit, felt pretty good and then went and did one on the ramp and I overcompensated the rotation. So when I landed I had whip lashed my head and had to get an MRI just to make sure there was no swelling or bleeding. And that’s when they revealed the eight centimeter mass that actually was about four centimeters deep too pushing on my optic nerve. And definitely wasn’t what I expected.

Dave Asprey:                          Are you grateful for that wipe out?

Josh Perry:                              Yeah. Actually, BMX saved my life. And that’s what people tell me on the time, that’s gonna be the worst thing that’s ever gonna happen to you. It’s really not. It’s all about perspective and I’ve changed my life 180 degrees and been able to help people with my story and lead by example to the younger generation how to take care of yourself and proper helmets and mouth guards and the nutrition.

Dave Asprey:                          How far along in your career were you? How far back was this? How old are you now?

Josh Perry:                              I’m 28.

Dave Asprey:                          You’re 28, okay. And this happened … What year?

Josh Perry:                              2010.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay so it happened a couple years ago, seven years ago. So you were 21.

Josh Perry:                              Yeah actually the 16th will be seven years from surgery.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay. And where were you in your career at that time?

Josh Perry:                              That was the year after I won my first pro contest. Beat one of my favorites watching growing up and I was pretty stoked about that. First year riding X games and continued on the Do Action Sports Tour. And it was about three years after I had moved to Greenville, North Carolina to train. I left home when I was 17 to pursue my dream of becoming a professional BMX athlete.

Dave Asprey:                          Now you’d had some stuff going on. Like you went to the doctor. You had migraines and throwing up, vision problems, which is sort of inconvenient when you’re on a bike, right?

Josh Perry:                              Yeah. Especially going upside down.

Dave Asprey:                          What did the doctor say?

Josh Perry:                              Well it was about a year prior that I’d been having symptoms of gnarly headaches and migraines and it actually got towards the end when I found out it was pushing on my optic nerve that my vision was going and I couldn’t see my hand in front of me. It was like five. And it was just, it was pretty surreal because they just kept telling me … I requested an MRI. I was pretty ignorant to it at the time but I was like, I don’t think headaches are something that someone should deal with just because. And they kept denying me scans, no you don’t need it. People just live with headaches and so they kept prescribing me pain medication. And I never took them. They don’t do well with me. And then one time it was that bad that I finally took some of the Percocets and it was the one and only time I’ve ever projectile vomited and it was not the best thing.

But yeah, now that’s why I’m a big advocate of if you think something’s wrong, you should definitely get it checked out. My situation would have been so much better had I got an MRI a year prior and might not have had the surgery and a different therapy.

Dave Asprey:                          Doctors are actually trained to, if you have more than a couple symptoms, to basically tell you it’s all in your head. And this is actually in the training. If they have more than three or four, it’s probably hypochondriac. More than ten, definitely hypochondriac. So did they blame you?

Josh Perry:                              No they just basically said there’s nothing wrong with me. Headaches are just something you’re gonna have to deal with. And I was like, I don’t think so.

Dave Asprey:                          You’re like, I’m a pro BMX rider and you’re telling me to man up?

Josh Perry:                              Yeah. Basically, yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          How did you feel when the doctor told you that?

Josh Perry:                              Told me …

Dave Asprey:                          Just deal with it.

Josh Perry:                              I was just … At the time, they’re like an authority figure to me not knowing really much about health and taking care of myself. So I just, oh they’re a doctor, they went to school, they learned all this, they know best. And my experience, if I had listened to them … If I didn’t fall and hit my head, I would’ve not woken up one day.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow. When you found out what it was, did you go back to the guy who told you it’s all in your head and did he apologize?

Josh Perry:                              He actually diagnosed me.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay. Did he apologize?

Josh Perry:                              No. And to be fair, he might have.

Dave Asprey:                          You might not remember?

Josh Perry:                              The midway of him telling me, it started, yeah, we got your MRI results. There’s something in your brain that shouldn’t be there. And it’s not … We don’t know if it’s benign or cancerous but it’s a tumor. And then when he said that, my everything just shut off. And then I remember, eventually I got up and walked out and some of the nurses tried to stop me and I was just focused on getting out. And at the time, I just ignorantly stopped, my life was over. And I was like, I just got diagnosed with cancer and at the time I didn’t know benign to malignant. I didn’t know the difference. But that’s just what went through my head. He might have said sorry but I don’t remember.

Dave Asprey:                          Would you describe yourself as health conscious or were you just sort of like french fries and hot dogs and beer?

Josh Perry:                              It’s so funny because when I tell people what I used to eat, they’re like no. No way. I used to go through a two liter Dr. Pepper a day just because it was cheaper than water. And I was in shape, doctor said I was healthy before the symptoms.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s all about calories.

Josh Perry:                              Yeah. You know, I was young, I was fit, I was active every day so I was healthy.

Dave Asprey:                          I might have had the same sort of thing happen when I was young. I was like, oh I can have a few cokes. It’s just carbs. But there’s a difference there and certainly my doctors weren’t the ones who told me that. My experience is that physicians are very well meaning. And they’re usually trained to not apologize also because they don’t want to get sued. But the bottom line is that they all want to help and they’re always doing their best and they’re always pressed for time and when someone comes up who looks really healthy but isn’t, I think it’s harder for anyone in the field versus someone who comes up who’s falling over all the time. Like, okay clearly something’s wrong here. So we’re all subject to that human error thing.

What did you decide to do when you have this, okay, I have cancer, I may die, I’m young but all of the sudden now I might have a very short life. What went through your head and what did you do?

Josh Perry:                              Well like I said, I walked out, sat in my car and called my mom when I could collect myself a little bit. She answered and I couldn’t speak for like five minutes. She knew something was wrong, I just couldn’t get the words out. And then what was going through my mind was, oh man, I’m not gonna be able to ride again. And that was the first thing. I didn’t think about my life at that point I was just like, I’m living my dream, I’m riding with my heroes, I’m a friend with Dave Miera, someone I looked up to my whole life growing up. I just won my first contest, Road X games and I’m done. And so I was trying to think of who I wanted to give my bike to, who I wanted to give my belongings to.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow.

Josh Perry:                              It’s just such a crazy experience.

Dave Asprey:                          Has that affected the way you think about your life now?

Josh Perry:                              Oh yeah. I mean through my experiences I’ve just become super grateful for being alive and progressing on my bike and just have a different perspective of life. I don’t really look at things as good or bad, I just kind of look at them as a learning experience. And your perspective on something can make something bad or good, it just depends on how you look at it. And so I just try to foster that positive mindset when things happen. I’m like, alright what can I learn from this?

Dave Asprey:                          When you decided to get surgery and you were laying there on the table, they’re about to put you under, what did you think about that?

Josh Perry:                              Well the experiences leading up to that, they put a camera up my groin in the vein to my brain to shut off one of the arteries so I wouldn’t bleed out. And when they told me what was gonna happen I was like, what? You can do that? From there? And they just progressed with different medications. They put a bunch of these dots to measure different things on my head. And then they were like yeah, say goodbye. My girlfriend at the time, that was the first time I said I love you to her. I was like, I don’t know if I’m gonna wake up. And I just prayed to God and I was just like, I don’t know what’s gonna happen. So I just tried to let everyone know that I loved them and kind of hoped for the best.

Dave Asprey:                          How were you when you woke up?

Josh Perry:                              It was amazing. The list of complications I had to sign the paper for was endless. Paralysis, stroke and death were among the top of them. And so when I woke up for the first time in about a year pain free, I could speak, I could see, I could move. I saw my family and my friends and I was just like wow. I’m awake. That was so crazy. And I had a catheter in. I had never had one of those.

Dave Asprey:                          Those suck.

Josh Perry:                              And I was like, mom I gotta pee really bad. She’s like, just go. You’re fine. And I was like, no I’m in bed. I need to go to the bathroom. I was a little drugged up at the time. And I tried to pull it out. And they were like, no don’t do that. Just go man, just go.

Dave Asprey:                          Catheter stories, my favorite.

Josh Perry:                              Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Having had three knee surgeries before I was 23, I’ve experienced the mighty catheter myself and we just won’t go there.

Josh Perry:                              Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          So, you came out of this and you were grateful because things worked. I don’t know if I’ve ever talked about this. My mom had brain surgery. She had seizures most of her life for epilepsy and eventually she went to Stanford and they told her, you might have some minor issues when you wake up and minor issues included needing almost a year of recovery, answering the phone with her stomach and just being really, really incoherent. So watching recovery from brain surgery can be just really a problem. And in your case, it sounds like you came through pretty quickly.

Josh Perry:                              The only negative problem I had was I couldn’t move my right big toe for two weeks and that tripped me out so much. I just was staring at it. I was like, move, move. Then two weeks later I saw it kind of move and then that was that. But it was just, you have to wait four weeks for the bone to fuse back together. And just being so careful. I bumped my head getting in my car like three weeks in and I’m just, I’m okay, I’m alright. Okay. And that happened twice and it just, it freaked me out. I came out pretty lucky.

Dave Asprey:                          How long was it before you found out that the tumors came back?

Josh Perry:                              So it was September of 2012. We were doing some BMX demos in India. And my mom emailed me from a scan that I had prior. Hey when you get some time I need to talk to you. I was like, oh obviously something’s wrong if you’re not gonna tell me what’s going on. And so I Skype called her and that’s when she told me. She refused to tell me as I got home and I was like, well you gotta tell me now. And …

Dave Asprey:                          Moms.

Josh Perry:                              Yeah. I was like, you shouldn’t have gone about it that way but you know. But I emailed my surgeon and I was like, should I come home? Should I book a flight home? I’ve got two more days left of this trip. And he said it’s not that big a deal. They’re small areas but they’re a result of the original tumor was located on a main artery in my brain and he couldn’t risk getting all the tissue and the cells because if he hit that artery I’d go into stroke or paralysis or have to have a shunt or could die and all these things.

Dave Asprey:                          He came to you and said, hey let’s use radiation on your brain. And you didn’t like that idea?

Josh Perry:                              No. He said that they were too small to have surgery and I was like, yeah I don’t really want to go through that again. I don’t want all the chemicals in my body. At this point I started getting into holistic nutrition and health and learned a little bit more. And yeah he just recommended radiation. And instantly, not knowing much about it, it just sounded horrible to me. And so I did some research on Google and then a couple hours later came across technology called Gamma Knife radiosurgery. And then that … At the time I found out I was like, well you said not to have surgery, this is Gamma Knife so not really sure how this is gonna work.

And the more research I did, it was just basically an outpatient procedure and great success rates and it just seemed like the best fit.

Dave Asprey:                          So you really went to Dr. Google?

Josh Perry:                              Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Alright. When you went into your surgeon, who in his 12 years of medical school and 20 years of clinical experiences told you to do an old school treatment and you were like no I want to do something new, how’d that go?

Josh Perry:                              Well he had known about it I think. Because when I told him, I was like, I’m gonna go with this, he’s like, yeah that’s great. And I was like well …

Dave Asprey:                          I like this guy.

Josh Perry:                              And I was like alright well sounds good. I’ll go through that. And that’s why I try to be an advocate of promoting these types of technologies that aren’t very well known. And had I got an MRI a year prior to getting diagnosed, it would have been small enough that I could have had the Gamma Knife and not had to have my skull cut open and be exposed to all the toxins and everything.

Dave Asprey:                          One of the lessons there, and one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show, is that when you are your own advocate and you accept the incredible experience and the knowledge that comes from being a medical professional but you’re also willing to ask questions and you find the kind of doctors who will answer your questions, you can oftentimes change your outcome. Or certainly just have more comfort there. And I’ve seen a shift in the bedside manner in a lot of doctors because, 25 years ago when someone would come in, there wasn’t Dr. Google. You couldn’t go learn about your condition. And it was like, you just gotta do what they say because they have this library of knowledge in their head. But now you’ve dug in and you said I want to do this and very cool your doctor said that.

And for people listening and people in the audience, it’s your right to ask as many questions as you want. Especially if they’re gonna open your head up or they’re gonna do something that could potentially end your life or leave you paralyzed. And you can ask questions until you’re comfortable right?

Josh Perry:                              Yeah. I mean I’ve always asked questions. I’ve challenged my parents and my friends growing up. So …

Dave Asprey:                          Well you are a BMX biker aren’t you?

Josh Perry:                              It wasn’t anything new to me. But I’m just a firm believer now that no one knows your body better than you. And if you have someone telling you there’s nothing wrong and you know there’s something wrong, the best thing to do is get it checked out just to cancel it out. Because in my case, if I hadn’t hit my head that day, I might not be here.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay. You talk about how your life lesson from this is listen to your body and your intuition. What does intuition have to do with all of this?

Josh Perry:                              Well, when you have a gut feeling, there’s a reason. And I knew something was wrong. And I could feel it, besides the headaches. But I just knew there was something not right and being ignorant to doctors and health and all that, like they know best. So I just, that’s what I went with. I ignored my intuition. And I noticed it with injuries on different tricks. If I had a gut feeling about something, and I went against it, I ended up falling and I got hurt or something.

Dave Asprey:                          How do you know the difference between intuition and fear?

Josh Perry:                              That’s a fine line. But from what I believe in is fear is just a thought. And that you can change your thoughts. And actually, the first tattoo I ever got it says, fear is just a thought, thoughts can be changed. And so, fear … And I’ve learned to assess, is that coming from me? Is that coming from a past experience or someone else? But if I got with my gut, my intuition, for the most part it’s usually right.

Dave Asprey:                          You’ve probably read some of the books about flow state and things like that and extreme athletes. There was Rise of Superman a while back. Do you use a flow state when you’re doing stunts?

Josh Perry:                              I’m actually not sure what that is.

Dave Asprey:                          So a flow state is this idea that when you get into an aggressive move or something where you’re pushing a limit, your mind goes somewhere else. Where instead of thinking about everything, you can’t think fast enough so you go into this state where you get kind of euphoria. Is that something that you experience when you’re riding or are you so technically precise that you’re sort of always in control?

Josh Perry:                              Well it’s pretty crazy. Because what we do in the matter of two seconds upside down, spinning our bike, twisting and all that, it just happens and you have to trust it. And you build it up over time. And so yeah, I guess so. It’s just something you feel. And that’s where the intuition comes in. You can feel it and you do it long enough, you practice long enough, just like meditation. You can start to get a better feel for it and better practice with it.

Dave Asprey:                          After your surgery, when did you stop the two gallons or two liters of Dr. Pepper? When did you change your diet?

Josh Perry:                              So after the first surgery, a friend told me to watch Food Matters on Netflix and that’s what sparked the interest in food for medicine and healing. And then I kind of got into it a little bit. Started taking some vitamins, which I found out were just a waste of money because I was just getting generic, synthetic vitamins. And then after the Gamma Knife, that’s when I really took note.

Because I went through a phase where the first time I got diagnosed I was scared, I thought my life was over. And the second time, I had a little bit of that and it lasted maybe a couple of hours when I was on a train ride back to the airport. And I just was determined to not let that affect me and not take over my life.

Dave Asprey:                          Alright. Now, we were looking at your diet and what happened to your tumors when you went on your diet?

Josh Perry:                              Well I think it was a combination of getting onto the more keto diet and then the Gamma Knife. You can’t … I don’t think you can tell which one did it because I had both of them. Or I had the treatment and then practiced the keto diet. And I really think that that’s … I did the math and I was eating so much sugar a day. And then I learned a little bit about blood sugar fueling different inflammation and infections and tumors and then I was just like, man this needs to stop.

And then I just started getting more into that. And I really think that’s what attributes to a lot of the shrinkage of the tumors. And then just my overall health and my ability to recover and my strength and my energy. It all just makes so much sense. If your body’s not stressed and in survival mode, then you’re gonna be more healthy.

Dave Asprey:                          That certainly has been my experience as well. Alright. You’ve had some other weird injuries. I’m always fascinated with people who are incredibly resilient. Psychologically and physically. So you blow out your knee a couple of years ago. And like you just keep doing this and you keep coming back. What makes that happen?

Josh Perry:                              It’s just the love for what I do. It just … I don’t feel as fulfilled in life with anything else. The feeling I get of just everything. And then when you work on a trick for so long. I mean, I’ve learned to accept failure as a part of life. You learn from it. And what I do, and people that do what I do, we fail more times in a day than people do in a month. And then when you can learn to excel from that and to move on and progress, that feeling is satisfaction of learning that trick or landing it. And it doesn’t … I don’t know. It’s just freedom. I’ve been able to see the world because of what I do on my bike. And if I lived my dream, or tried to live my dream of going to the NBA when I was younger, I don’t know if it would have worked out so well. I’m a little short.

Dave Asprey:                          Well, that willingness to fail is, I think, a hallmark of almost every great athlete. And pretty much people who succeed in all other things I’ve seen. What happens when you really started cutting out inflammatory foods? How did you figure out about that?

Josh Perry:                              A friend of mine got me Dr. Perlmutter’s book Grain Brain in 2013.

Dave Asprey:                          Alright. Love Dr. Perlmutter.

Josh Perry:                              And I became a big fan. And then the next year …

Dave Asprey:                          I think there’s this quote on the back of the book.

Josh Perry:                              And then the next year, I enrolled in the Institute of Integrative Nutrition just to kind of learn more about all the conflicting theories of nutrition that I was learning and what works and what doesn’t. And a big term they use is bionivegulouti So like, what works for you might not work for them and vice versa. And then I got exposed to Daniel Amen and Mark Hyman and started really learning about protecting my brain with my food and then it just kind of kicked off from there.

Dave Asprey:                          So what do you do now for food? What are your food rules?

Josh Perry:                              I pretty much follow the Bulletproof rules. Whatever can help my gut and my brain. So a big change for me over the last year of being exposed to Bulletproof is, of course, the grass fed butter. And all of the conflicting things of that in the past I was like really? Grass fed butter, grass fed beef. You’re not supposed to eat red meat that much. And so things like that. And then experimenting with different vegetables and grains. And from Dr. Perlmutter’s work I learned a little bit about gluten and stuff like that I don’t do that. I cut that out.

I also went 100% on that recently. Because a friend of mine, his daughter has autism and when they take that out of her diet she does so much better. Her skin clears up, her speech improves. And I told her, I was like, alright, we’re gonna do this together. I’m gonna support you, you’re gonna support me and do 100%.

And then a new thing is coffee. And I started experimenting with coffee after reading Brain Maker from Dr. Perlmutter. And then I saw a video he did talking about Bulletproof. And then coincidentally you guys did an episode together and I was like I’m gonna give this coffee thing a try.

Dave Asprey:                          I’ve got to say, Dr. Perlmutter, if you ever get a chance to meet him, have you met him?

Josh Perry:                              I have not. Just the video that we did together.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay. Alright.

Josh Perry:                              He’s supposed to be in North Carolina this month, he said. So we’re gonna try and meet up.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s worth it. He’s one of the most amazing human beings I’ve ever met. If you ever get a chance at a conference or whatever, to see him, just ten times more knowledgeable than I am and completely grounded and down to earth. And I think that the technical term, I’m still working on my millennial, but he doesn’t give AF about critics at all. And he’s triple board certified and completely willing to just go there and say the truth. So I have huge admiration for him. And I’m happy to see that his work helped you out because it’s cool.

Josh Perry:                              Yeah. Definitely learning all the nutrition theories and things kind of led me to the state of anxiety and depression for a while. I was scared to eat. And I lost 20 pounds because I was like, everything turns to glucose eventually. I can’t eat anything. What am I supposed to do? And then a friend of mine told me, you’re looking pretty skinny man. You’re usually not that skinny. And then his work and getting introduced to Bulletproof just seriously cleared all these things for me and I’ve never felt better.

And my mom’s like, you drink coffee now? I drink coffee all the time you always don’t want any. Well, you learn. That’s life.

Dave Asprey:                          I consider it to be a performance enhancing substance but that’s just me.

Josh Perry:                              Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          And like 2,000 years of history.

Josh Perry:                              Yeah it’s funny I show up to the skate park with a coffee in the mornings.

Dave Asprey:                          Nice.

Josh Perry:                              It’s funny because everybody’s like what are you drinking? Butter and stevia oils and brain octane, coffee.

Dave Asprey:                          All the good stuff.

Josh Perry:                              No sugar.

Dave Asprey:                          What’s going to happen next? Like what are your plans now? You’ve sort of got this divided career where you’re still riding but you’re also starting to talk more about health and about this incredible odyssey you’ve been through.

Josh Perry:                              Yeah, so I’m in the beginning stages now of starting my foundation, the Josh Perry foundation. And working with the company that invented Gamma Knife. They’re named Elekta. And the project we’re working on is global BMX shows, like demos, around the world at different facilities to promote awareness of different technologies, food and health and BMX. Because BMX is fairly small so I want to use my experiences and my fortunate life to share more about the things I’ve learned. So that way people don’t have to have a catastrophic event like I did to open up their mind to different things in life. So it’s kind of my main goal.

And kind of branch out of BMX. Use BMX as my vehicle, but I ultimately want to share my story so I can help people. That’s what I’m really passionate about now.

Dave Asprey:                          There’ve been a few other people that have done that sort of thing. Thank you.

Josh Perry:                              That’s why, you, Perlmutter and Mark Hyman, they have these amazing stories of health complications they went through. Or Perlmutter has to look at his dad across the street with Alzheimer’s and they have a bigger mission in life than just to do the normal thing. They want to help people. So like I said, people tell me, it’s gonna be the worst thing ever. And it’s like not really. What I went through has really changed me and changed my goals in life. And I want to leave something behind when I’m gone. And I ultimately want to help people. And expose my sport to you. So I think it’s pretty cool what we do. And it’s not well known.

Dave Asprey:                          Well nice work on the gratitude there. That is really hard to do and there are a lot of people in your similar situation who would just be caught up in self-pity. And instead you’ve got this amazing mindset and an incredible resilience. So I admire that. Hats off, man.

Josh Perry:                              Thank you. Appreciate it.

Dave Asprey:                          Now, if someone came to you tomorrow and said, based on all these things that have happened to you, I want some of your advice. What are the three most important things you could offer me if I wanted to perform better at everything I do in my life? Not just a sport or anything else. What would you say?

Josh Perry:                              I would tell them first to think about their perspective on life. And life more in gratitude and positivity, most important. Because if you’re eating healthy foods but you’re living stressed out or angry and depressed, it’s not gonna do much. And then see where they’re at with their sugar intake and the foods they’re eating. And kind of see what changes we can make. And then drink more water and maybe have some coffee.

Dave Asprey:                          That was pretty good advice, I’ve got to say. Alright. Josh Perry, thanks for being on Bulletproof radio.

Josh Perry:                              Yeah, thank you for having me. It’s an honor to be here. I appreciate it.

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How Resistance Training and the ARX Fit System Will Revolutionize Your Workout – Mark Alexander


Why you should listen –

Have you ever thought to yourself, “I’d love to work out smarter…not longer or harder?!” Mark Alexander, a health entrepreneur and the founder of ARX Fit, felt the same way, and he made it his mission to advance the human body through life-improving innovations. Using resistance training as a basis for his exercise technology, Mark developed a system that uses computer-controlled, motorized resistance – not physical weights. Mark and ARX product manager, Mike Pullano, join Dave to discuss the important positive impacts resistance exercise has on your overall health and longevity, how you can get the benefits of an amazing workout in less time doing less work, and how removing gravity from the equation provides a safer, more effective and totally efficient workout for people of all ages and stages of life. You won’t want to miss this fascinating discussion about how new, emerging technology is changing the exercise world and the future of fitness.

Enjoy the show!

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*See full transcript below Show Notes section

Show Notes

*To find out more about ARX Fit, visit ARXFit.com

Bulletproof Coach Training: If you want to feel your best, perform your best and help others do the same then take a look at our Bulletproof Coach Training. It’s an incredible training, one that combines the best of performance coaching with biohacking and personal development. Go to bulletprooftraininginstitute.com for more information

  • MUSE: Special offer for Bulletproof Radio listeners! $50 off by using the code bulletproof17 when you order at choosemuse.com
  • Cool Fact of the Day: People with diabetes are hacking their own medical devices!
  • Morrocco Method Natural Hair Care: For a limited time, special 15% off offer just for Bulletproof listeners! Go to www.morroccomethod.com and use code Bulletproof15 at checkout
  • Bulletproof product to check out: Unfair Advantage
  • Check us out on YouTube at Bulletproof.com/YouTube
  • Dave introduces Mark Alexander & Mike Pullano from ARX Fit, a unique, muscle-building exercise system. ARX Fit is a computer-driven workout technology that is totally different from other fitness equipment
  • Mark & Mike discuss how ARX came about, and how it’s different from other types of fitness and weight training, and how it maximizes eccentric training (also known as negative training)
  • ARX doesn’t use weights – it’s a computer-controlled, motor-driven system that gives you the exact amount of resistance that you’re capable of. The guys discuss exactly how this works…
  • What other forms of exercise, like running, aerobics and other types of cardio, does to the body
  • How weight lifting machines have evolved over the years, Dave’s earliest workout memories, and how the ARX system adapts to the user
  • Mark & Mike walk Dave through how the ARX resistance system works to adapt to any user, old or young, and what to expect from the experience
  • Who is leveraging the ARX system now, why resistance exercise is important for bone density…and why you should get a trainer!
  • Why weight training and resistance exercise – done properly – is important for people of all ages and generations, and how it can impact your longevity
  • The wide range of health issues that ARX and resistance exercise can have a positive impact on
  • New trends emerging in resistance training, and what’s new with the ARX technology
  • Why resistance training gives you more bang for your buck than other types of exercise, and why they hope you check out ARX
  • The guys talk about some new workout technology, including the Bulletproof VIBE
  • How working out smarter can actually take less time
  • Mark & Mike’s most important pieces of advice for performing better in all aspects of life
  • Visit us on iTunes and subscribe or leave a 5-star review!
  • If you enjoyed today’s episode, check out Dave’s book “Headstrong” and leave a review on Amazon!

Full Transcript

Speaker 1:                               Bulletproof Radio, a state of high performance.

Dave Asprey:                          You’re listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today’s cool fact of the day is that people with diabetes are actually hacking their own devices, because a woman got kind of pissed off that the manufacturer of her continuous glucose monitor didn’t have an alarm to wake her up when her blood sugar was crashing at night, so she could fix it, so she hacked it.

She actually created something called, Open APS, which is called the open artificial pancreas system project, and decided she didn’t want to wait for FDA approval or a long manufacturing process. It can actually take many years to do a full medical device like that. She decided to just open source it so you can get data from your own continuous glucose monitor and put it in a little computer, like a raspberry pie, which costs about 50 bucks. It’ll change commands going into your insulin pump so that you can have different insulin rates.

How cool is that? So we’re actually hacking our own biology and not relying on a permission slip from some regulatory body, or even from a doctor in order to do that. This is the future of having control of your own biology, and it’s particularly cool. If none of that made any sense to you because this is your first episode of Bulletproof Radio, I’m just going to break that down for you.

What’s going on there is a continuous glucose monitor is a little thing that you wear for two weeks. I actually wore one. I was on Dr. Oz, actually, wearing it. I had like a bionic arm. I was wearing like a monitoring ring that monitored my health and on the same arm I had a disc about the size of a quarter, on the back of my arm. For two weeks it told me any time I wanted to know what my blood sugar was, so I could see how I was responding to meals. I’ve been doing stuff like that for many years.

Sticking my fingers years and years ago, the way diabetics do, not because I’m diabetic but because if you want to live a long time you want to make sure that you control your blood sugar, and one of the ways you can do that is you can have more muscle mass, or you can exercise regularly, you can eat less sugar, don’t eat a lot of carbs. In fact too much protein even or too much whey protein or milk protein isolate, which is real popular in some of the low carb stuff out there actually raises your insulin, which is not what you want to do.

I just thought that it was kind of cool that someone out there directly took control of her own health and then shared it with other people, rather than waiting for someone else to do it for them so that’s why that’s the cool fact of the day, because it’s cool.

As we get into the show, today’s promo for Bulletproof Stuff, because after all, I am CEO of Bulletproof in addition to your host today, and I’m going to talk about the stuff that works. If you haven’t seen Unfair Advantage, this is a whole-body, broad-spectrum enhancer, and specifically it’s a cognitive enhancer.

It works differently than most of the things on the market. If you go to Whole Foods, for instance, you can pick up 1 of 25 different things that’ll raise your acetylcholine levels, and if you’re at the right age, and you have the right brain that’s going to work for you, but those often times can backfire with jaw tension if you get too much of those things in fact, that’s a problem for me.

What this does is it goes down a level and says, look, you need to blow your energy up, so you have energy throughout the body by making the cells manufacture energy better, the way you read in Head Strong. So Unfair Advantage comes in this cool little thing, if you’re watching on YouTube. By the way, bulletproof.com/YouTube will take you right to the channel. It comes in little ampules you can keep it in your pocket. I do two of these before I work out and any time when I go on stage.

Like a little while ago I was just on Tony Robbins main stage in front of 15,000 people. I took four Unfair Advantages and four KetoPrime’s, another one of our products, as well as a cup of Bulletproof coffee, and I don’t think my feet ever hit the floor. I don’t know. I was kind of lit up in the best possible way. It was one of the best public talks I’ve ever given. It was just a standing ovation, and a few people cried. Bam, you know you reached them.

So I know that I am more when I have more energy, and when your body has more energy, your brain will feel it first because you have the most energy-producing cells in the brain. When you have a dip in your energy, you’re going to feel it first in your brain. You get forgetful. You get foggy. You get cravings, you get irritable. Well, check out Unfair Advantage. It tastes good. You squeeze a little thing under your tongue. It’s portable, and it totally rocks my world. It’s a real powerful thing. Just go to bulletproof.com and look for Unfair Advantage.

But in the meantime, I’m going to talk to a couple guys who are disrupting exercise. A lot of people are asking, “Dave, how come you’re so buff?” Okay, they don’t really ask that except all the girls. Okay, they don’t ask that either. I’m married, come on. What they do say is though, “Dave, you put on some muscle. You’re looking better now than you did a few years ago,” and I’d like to say it’s just from exercise, but look, all the research in Head Strong, I’ve had stem cells taken out of my butt and put in my face on the Facebook Live, so I’ve been really secret about that one.

But I do everything possible in my quest to live to 180 and one of those things is getting the best possible exercise and not spending like 16 hours a day exercising because that also is wear and tear, and I got stuff to do. I’m a dad, I’m a husband, I’m a New York Times author I’m a podcaster. Oh, and I have this little company to run that just raised like $30 million in venture funding. I’m loaded with stuff to do, so every minute of my day counts because every minute I waste exercising is a minute I don’t get to play with my kids. I mean that very seriously.

I’ve got a couple of guys here who have really cracked the code on putting muscle on quickly without spending hours and hours in the gym. If you love spending hours in the gym and that’s what you want to do, that’s cool and there’s nothing wrong with that, but for a lot of us it’s like, how do we get the benefits? The guys I’m talking about here are Mark Alexander and Mike Pullano from a company called ARX, and Mark … Hey Mark say hi, so they know your voice.

Mark Alexander:                  Yes. Hello Mark here.

Dave Asprey:                          All right. Mark is the founder of several different companies in the health field including ARX, a company called Efficient Exercise, and you’ve probably heard of Paleo FX, the conference. This is the man who started Paleo FX.

Mark Alexander:                  One of them.

Dave Asprey:                          One of them. That’s a fair point. As the CEO of ARX, he’s basically driving this idea that, what if we got the right signal into our body to cause it to adapt most rapidly? Which is totally biohacking, and he’s been at … How many Bulletproof conferences now? Three?

Mark Alexander:                  This will be our fourth one coming up. Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Fourth? Yeah. October 13th through 15th in 2017 is the fifth one. Expecting about 3,000 people it was 100 people four years ago, believe it or not, unbelievable. It’s just because people are like, wait, I don’t want to be healthy I want more. You’ve been with us almost since the beginning. You’ve also heard Mark before on an earlier Bulletproof podcast where at Paleo FX we had a demo of an older version of the ARX got a newer version here at Bulletproof Labs in my house.

ARX is a computer-driven workout technology. Instead of fighting gravity and using heavy weights and things like ropes or something, which are actually kind of cool, you can fight a computer. The change to what it does to your body is amazing. In addition to Mark here in Bulletproof Studios on Vancouver Island, we’ve got Mike. Mike Pullano, say, hi.

Mike Pullano:                       Hello everybody.

Dave Asprey:                          All right. Now you’ve got his voice. He’s the product manager from ARX, so I’m going to go deep, ask some questions about why this matters, what it is. What’s in it for you listening to this is you’re going to learn some things about … Even if you’re not using ARX at your local gym, it may not even be available yet, you can certainly ask for it. But you’ll learn some things about exercise physiology that helps you understand how your body builds muscle.

I think that’s going to be useful for everyone, because maybe you can shave a few minutes off your workout. Or maybe you don’t shave a few minutes off, you just put on more muscle, or you have better bones. There’s a lot to understand about the way our bodies build muscle. I think we’re going to dig in to a lot of that here. All right, guys officially welcome to the show.

Mark Alexander:                  Hey. Thanks, Dave.

Dave Asprey:                          Was that like a really long-winded introduction for you?

Mark Alexander:                  No, it was perfect.

Mike Pullano:                       Did good.

Dave Asprey:                          All right. Did I miss any important points?

Mark Alexander:                  No.

Dave Asprey:                          All right you guys are both Austinites?

Mark Alexander:                  Yes. Yep. Well-

Mike Pullano:                       Born and raised in Chicago. But live in Austin now, yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          All right. And you’re born in Austin?

Mark Alexander:                  I’ve been in Texas all my life. Been in Austin all my university and professional career yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          You know I grew up in New Mexico, right?

Mark Alexander:                  Okay.

Dave Asprey:                          There’s a little bit of rivalry here, because you Texans come over to New Mexico and you use our ski slopes in your big cars with your big hats. What’s up with that?

Mark Alexander:                  Well, you got to start there and then you work your way up to Colorado so yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          I think I’m going to tell one of my most favorite jokes here, that has nothing to do with biohacking.

Mark Alexander:                  Perfect.

Dave Asprey:                          But it’s awesome, and it’s only a little bit rude. All right and I apologize in advance to all the people I’m making fun of right now. There’s a bar in Santa Fe, and there’s a New Mexican sitting down and next to him there’s a Texan, and next to him there’s a Californian. The Texan says, “I’ll have a shot of tequila, please!” and he says that in an even more of a Texas accent, which you don’t have of course. He drinks it and he throws his glass on the floor and says, “In Texas we got so much tequila we never drink from the same glass twice.” and the Californian’s like, “Oh, well I’m from Silicon Valley. I’ll have the merlot.”

Of course, he drinks his red wine and goes, “In California we’ve got so much red wine. We never drink from the same glass twice.” and he throws it on the floor. The New Mexican looks at them both and he finishes his beer, and he pulls out a gun, and he shoots both of them, and he says, “In New Mexico we’ve got so many Texans and Californians, we never drink with the same ones twice.”

Mark Alexander:                  There you go.

Dave Asprey:                          Now of course, I’ve been in California for much of my life, too, so I’m only making fun of myself here but, hey. You didn’t laugh.

Mike Pullano:                       I’m from Illinois. I’m not a part of this [crosstalk 00:09:41].

Dave Asprey:                          I don’t have any good Chicago jokes. I’m afraid of Chicago jokes because they kill you if you make a joke. Okay, there. Now I got my Chicago joke in.

Mike Pullano:                       The percentage of lead in the air in Chicago is horrendous.

Dave Asprey:                          All right. Now I’ve soundly offended people from only four states.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah, yeah. No.

Dave Asprey:                          Now what other states are left. Hopefully that was a great interlude and [inaudible] that improved the quality of your life, because humor changes heart rate variability, which makes you live longer yeah, yeah. That.

Mike Pullano:                       Let’s do it. Keep the jokes coming, Dave. Keep them coming.

Dave Asprey:                          That’s probably the only joke I’ve told on Bulletproof Radio, but it’s one of my favorites. All right let’s talk about, what the heck is ARX really? I gave it a brief intro, but why?

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah, well. I mean, I can give you a little bit of history and background, and Mike can definitely dive into the specifics. I grew up around exercise. I had a much more low-tech version of a barn-style gym in my backyard in the 70s and 80s, and my father’s retired internes was always an exercise is medicine kind of guy. I grew up, pictures to verify, literally lifting weights in diapers. I was in there. We just ran your son through a little bit of a workout. You can, in the right manner, lift weights very young.

Dave Asprey:                          You still lift weights in diapers, is what you’re saying?

Mark Alexander:                  Sometimes I need it. Gets you already bulletproof right before the workout.

Mike Pullano:                       It’s a little awkward in the office every once in a while, but it’s not that [crosstalk].

Mark Alexander:                  Mark’s in diapers again.

Mike Pullano:                       He’s the CEO so he can do what he wants.

Dave Asprey:                          He’s blushing!

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.  That means we’re going on the right track. Blushing because of the … Yeah, we’re all feeling pretty good right now, yeah. Anyway, fast-forward a bit and I’ve always had kind of a historical context and, I guess, reverence, if you will. In some ways there’s truly nothing new under the sun, and so I’ve always studied exercise history and physical culture. My faculty advisors have now started at the University of Texas in Austin, the Stark Center for Physical Culture.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh cool.

Mark Alexander:                  I think maybe you were there at the first Paleo FX when we held it there.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah. I totally remember that. I love Austin. It’s really hard to get to but I’m there like three or four times a year, though. Whole Foods headquarters is there, I interviewed John Mackey there. It’s one of my favorite cities.

Mark Alexander:                  It’s a great place to visit, Austin but also if you’re a physical culture buff-

Dave Asprey:                          Stark Center is well known and so for people who don’t know what Stark Center is.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah Joe Weider when he was still alive, funded this again Jan and Terry have always been physical culture historians and when I was at UT their office was like a cave of a place and it had all sorts of implements and books and all sorts of neat stuff. But anyway as I was coming up thinking I knew everything as most young adults do, it gave me a good reverence for where I stood and where my ideas stood in terms of physical culture.

Again we always get asked about the barbell and is that a bad tool. No it’s just ineffective and inefficient. There are inefficiencies and so that’s why really the pain points if you will of where ARX came about specifically if we hone in eccentric training and eccentric portion the range of motion and so again for your viewers that are watching they can see but I’ll try to describe this a little bit better.

Take a barbell bench press, most people know what that is. As you’re lowering the weight towards your chest, you’re going to actually produce a lot more force maybe even two to one than what you can lift off of your chest. What we wanted to do was maximize the known benefits of eccentric training. In other words when the bar is lowering or the negative in gym terms, we wanted to be able to have a tool to maximize that.

Then what we also discovered as well if we’re maximizing eccentric force we should maximize the concentric force and we should just maximize the entire stimulus.

Dave Asprey:                          Basically concentric is when you’re pushing it away from you and then chest press.

Mark Alexander:                  Yes in this-

Dave Asprey:                          Eccentric is when basically the bar is falling towards you and you’re slowly resisting?

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah and-

Dave Asprey:                          They do different things to your muscle, right?

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah and in the gym often times the eccentric field’s kind of like rest, it’s not that hard because you’re so much stronger in that phase of the repetition and yeah you’re absolutely right. With resistance exercise you want to make sure you get the muscle damaged to produce the micro traumas produce hypertrophy or muscle growth.

You want to also make sure that you get a bit of metabolic stress which again this has been debunked and Doug McGuff, has been an advocate for this. Our bodies can’t-

Dave Asprey:                          Go Doug.

Mark Alexander:                  … yeah can’t really think in terms of aerobic, anaerobic and the systems just work as a whole they don’t work in isolation. The way that we promote resistance exercise is that it should have a metabolic effect. You should be a little winded when you’re done. Then you want to adapt, your systems should adapt mitochondrial function should improve. There is a lot of neat things that happen, but I guess in kind of staying with what ARX is for just a minute here, I guess Mike could kind of describe the experience a bit more and kind of where ARX is today.

Mike Pullano:                       Yeah so if you’re talking specifically about the positive and the negative and how we’re optimizing it, right so it should be stated that ARX doesn’t use weights, so it’s a motor driven system and a computer controlled motor driven system that will basically give you the exact amount of resistance that you’re capable of and nothing more in the full range of motion.

Dave Asprey:                          If you were to think about this in terms of weight and it truly is in weight because weights are affected by gravity.

Mark Alexander:                  Right.

Dave Asprey:                          Your body senses that gravity is in the system and then it starts to hold back. But if you imagine a little robot that’s constantly adding or subtracting little plates at every hundred thousandth of a second just to make sure you have exactly as much as you can lift anywhere on the curve. The earliest version this was the old 24 or I guess the old Nautilus machines. Where instead of a round thing they would have like an egg shaped thing, which was a huge innovation.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah I mean Arthur Jones and Nautilus and again I’m a history buff and grew up with the Nautilus gym being an influence on my world, but yes there was an attempt to we know that resistance in theory should not be linear but a barbell at 225 is a barbell at 225. The cam was attempt was adapt that resistance curve, and it worked for one person it works for one given time but it doesn’t account for fatigue, it doesn’t account for individual difference [inaudible 00:16:16] things like that.

It was a move forward but honestly we haven’t seen in my humble opinion here a lot of progressive thought towards resistance exercise. I think Kenneth Cooper and the aerobics craze kind of just got everyone making fancy tread mills. Hopefully we’re going to shift that paradigm back here.

Dave Asprey:                          Did you every own like a man leotard?

Mark Alexander:                  No, yeah but-

Dave Asprey:                          Good I was hoping you were going to say no.

Mark Alexander:                  … tank tops maybe.

Mike Pullano:                       It’s hot.

Dave Asprey:                          There we go. There was a time in the 80s you know Jazzercise, I used to go to Jazzercise with my parents when I was 14. It was ridiculous, leg warmers the whole thing. That wasn’t terribly effective but it does do something. What does it do when you do cardio like that you’re jumping around?

Mark Alexander:                  Well unfortunately for … I live in Austin so we see tons of runners. With efficient exercise with most runners, mostly in corrective fashion get the craft it’s not working well, working better and then get them stronger so they don’t get injured. I’m a little biased here but I think what it does is it unfortunately makes people overuse certain muscles and then creates imbalances and then ultimately gets them hurt and then they think well I can’t exercise.

Dave Asprey:                          You’re thinking of running but I mean I’m taking Jazzercise, because Jazzercise is the most ridiculous thing. If you guys don’t know Jazzercise is, like Google something from the 80s. It’s like a bunch of people with 80s hair and leotard and leg warmers and wrist warmers.

Mark Alexander:                  Let Michael demonstrated right now.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah and they’re jumping around so at least it not a repetitious like step, step like running. Even something like that though in terms of just physiologically what does cardio with mixed emotions, what’s that going to do for you if you’re … Say you’re doing an hour of raising your heart rate kind of stuff.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah there are some cardio respiratory benefits if done properly and not hurting yourself. Let’s just assume jazzercise is done in a vacuum. There could be benefits to jazzercise. I’m not here again kind of a barbell; I’m not here to completely knock out.

Dave Asprey:                          No I’m not asking you to, I’m just … I’m looking … People listening they may be doing some form of aerobic training.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah well I would say move towards an interval basis. Instead of just steady state think I have to do it for an hour I’ve got to log this many miles, challenge yourself more in an interval fashion. Go more high intensity with rest periods. I would say that tabata is kind of the known one but any protocol similar to that I would say that most people.

Dave Asprey:                          Define the tabata protocol for people who.

Mark Alexander:                  I mean it’s a rest work ratio where you’re trying to exert at a high intensity level and then rest. If you’re doing 15 seconds on then you would take a minute off and you know rinse and repeat.

Dave Asprey:                          Recover.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          The difference there from the research that I was doing, actually this was more in the Bulletproof diet thing before Head Strong, although I recommend interval training in Head Strong specifically for mitochondria.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Is that … There is something called ejection fraction in your heart, which is on one heartbeat how much blood can you move. If you teach your body to always run or to always do like high even if it’s very high higher intensity but long times your heart’s like oh I’ll just raise my heart rate and like spit little bits of blood.

The people who are longest lived and most powerful are the ones who can go from normal heartbeat to in one pump like forcing a lot of blood through and that’s actually the ability to be variable in that. You get that from lifting heavy things and you get that from sprinting and in Head Strong the new innovation there, which came from John Gray surprisingly the Mars Venus guy, who is a good friend also a very knowledge biology guy.

He is like look, do your spring and lay on your back just like we do in CrossFit. The lay on your back has a different effect for recovery. It’s sprint and then people think you’re having a heart attack in the part.

Mark Alexander:                  Full concrete floor, just excellent.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah and here is the trick, what you can do, you do your sprint and make sure that when you’re; dong sprinting when you’re laying down on the ground, doing it in front of an attractive member of the opposite sex, in case they try to give you CPR.

Mark Alexander:                  Yes just in case.

Mike Pullano:                       I have been looking for a gym hack like that.

Mark Alexander:                  Yes.

Mike Pullano:                       Thank you.

Mark Alexander:                  Mike usually goes with a puppy but he [inaudible]

Mike Pullano:                       Some gyms don’t allow it, so it’s like this helps me across the board.

Dave Asprey:                          The puppy workout.

Mike Pullano:                       I’m good, appreciate that.

Dave Asprey:                          That’s kind of the cardio side of things; I’m just asking that because you’re expert in the field. But also now you look at the innovations that have happened there, people are learning go ahead and sprint. When it comes to something like hunting, we used to hunt with spears and you can still do that but you also could like hunt with a gun, right and it might get you more meat in less time. You could say well that’s cheating, yes it’s cheating it’s called the efficiency.

Mark Alexander:                  It’s an advancement.

Dave Asprey:                          You run another company called the Efficiency Exercise. That’s what we’re here to do that’s what this episode is about is like how are you going to drive efficiency. The first step was we went from barbells, which still have … There is kettlebells barbells they’re good.

Mark Alexander:                  They’re a good tool yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          We went from that to maybe even from barbells to kettlebells was an innovation and then we went to these machines that had a round cam so no matter where you were lifting it was always the same amount of force up and down. Then they said, “Oh let’s make this egg shaped elliptical cam, which was a huge thing like changed body building.

My earliest memory of that by the way when I was a kid I was overweight and so my parents … I played soccer for 13 years, I had a bike and I’d ride, so it was 20 miles a day, I just couldn’t lose the weight, no matter what I did. I would wake up with dad at 5:00 in the morning, which biologically is kryptonite for me, I’m not …

Mark Alexander:                  What would a teenager do especially like that.

Dave Asprey:                          My earliest memory is I’m 12 I’m going to work out with my dad, I go to work out in the morning and I completely ralph all over the floor at the workout place in Albuquerque there. It was just not the right thing for me so yeah that’s my earliest workout I’m traumatized all right. Even then it was all about lift fast and then come down slow and with the elliptical cam and that was like a pretty big thing. But then of course we’re trying to do reps and things like that, with the ARX machine.

Giving that instead of relying on me to know what to do and all that stuff, with the ARX instead of that elliptical cam you got a computer that will just change on a second by second basis. All of the hardware that made that happen is gone and it’s moved into software, right.

Mark Alexander:                  Correct, so we have … As we unearth the potential for ARX we now realize we’re a technology company. We are now in the exercise world but we’re a technology company. We have developed systems that will adapt to the user. It doesn’t matter if you’re on the machine if I’m on the machine if Mike’s on the machine, the system will adapt to the user.

Similar to if you were thinking about how could I design something that actually worked effectively and efficiently, you would have the system adapt to the user not have it the other way around.

Dave Asprey:                          One of the big things, this is going to sound ridiculous but how much time do you spend at the gym, taking plates off of bars and putting them back on? That is time you don’t get back. When on your death bed like maybe 180 or so maybe even way past that, you’re like men when I look back at my life, I’m really happy for all the time I spent taking things, like no. This is wasted effort, right and maybe bring a couple of buddies with you and make them do it.

But same thing you have to do it for them, like you don’t win, no one wins on that. Now we’ve got a computer that just does it and we just Allan my well he turns eight in a couple of days. We just had him down there; he’s an amazingly ripped kid.

Mark Alexander:                  Focused, and yes.

Dave Asprey:                          He just likes to exercise just the kind of like, oh I’ll climb a rope I’ll climb a tree, I don’t have a regiment at all. But he was doing a chest press and his peak was 203 pounds, and my wife was 217 by the way, I think she was holding back. But anyway I mean I was blown away because you would never put a 200 pound bar on a kid it would kill them like literally, it could and it would cause damage. It wasn’t that he lifted that much it was that at one point in the curve he was able to exert that much.

Mark Alexander:                  Yes for micro seconds that there was a peak there, yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Right and so it’s very different, there is no way to get that kind of exercise with gravity that I’m aware of.

Mark Alexander:                  Within our [crosstalk] system.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay and that’s what I want listeners to understand here.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Now walk me through Mike like okay a person sits down on the machine, how does this work? How does the algorithm work? Okay so I’m sitting there I want to do a chest press and there is a bunch of exercises, leg presses and things like that you can do. Okay you sit down how does the machine know what to do?

Mike Pullano:                       Yeah so it is again it’s the way we always describe it is in a weight world it’s you versus the weight, right? If you lift 100 pounds you need to lower 100 pounds because it wants to go the center of the earth whether or not your shoulder feels capable of holding it above your head or not. With ARX it’s not a weight, so it’s you versus this motor driven system so in the omni it’s a couple of handles that are in front of you doing a chest press, they’re moving back at a constant rate of speed.

You’re trying to get in way of it, right? Slow the motor down or slow the machine from doing what it wants to do, you’re always going to lose. But the actual motor the system doesn’t do anything to you like a weight would. If you let go the number goes to zero on the screen, the handles may keep moving but nothing happens to you, right?

You’re fighting this motor driven system creating your own resistance against it and with that comes a lot of inherent safety because now you can’t go above what you’re capable of, right? There is no external force acting on you, so as you fatigue it just keeps matching you, one for one.

This why we always say linebacker or grandmas right can use ARX, same machine one after the other because it’s whatever that person that linebacker is capable of the machine can adapt and match him and whatever that grandma is capable of the machine can adapt and match them, so it’s fairly safer.

Dave Asprey:                          My grandma is actually is a linebacker so it can work for her.

Mike Pullano:                       Then she’s a two for one.

Dave Asprey:                          She’s actually an-

Mark Alexander:                  She’s an outlier.

Mike Pullano:                       She’s an outlier.

Dave Asprey:                          She’s actually a nuclear engineer and that’s true, she’s not a linebacker never was. That’s the opposite of what she would be.

Mike Pullano:                       It matches you with whatever you have the capability of rep 1 to rep 20 it doesn’t matter.

Dave Asprey:                          She’s 96, I mean can I really put a 96 year old on the ARX like is it going to benefit them.

Mark Alexander:                  Absolutely, yeah absolutely. I mean the program and protocol would look a little bit different and of course the system will adapt to her-

Dave Asprey:                          A little bit less weight.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.

Mike Pullano:                       Her numbers will be lower than the linebacker would be.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay.

Mark Alexander:                  But there are I mean yeah there are … I do like people to know doesn’t matter what age you’re you can start. If you haven’t … That holds true for resistance exercise if done properly across the board.

Dave Asprey:                          All right so let’s talk about the benefits of resistance exercise at different ages I guess after that. You could turn this on with ARX and it’s got a good safety profile. I’d feel better putting my grandmother on ARX.

Mark Alexander:                  Then putting a bar on her back or something.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah like you would never do that because well A she just wouldn’t do it because she’s like I don’t like exercise.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay let’s start, actually start in reverse age. You’re 80 plus what is resistance exercise going to do for you?

Mark Alexander:                  Well and just a quick step back, what I’ve observed with working with people for almost 20 years through Efficient Exercise and I haven’t worked with clients recently because of ARX but there is a generational difference in terms of how they view exercise. If we’re starting with the silent generation and earlier, sorry I can’t remember what the earlier generation is called but-

Dave Asprey:                          Old?

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah old, very old by now.

Dave Asprey:                          Nothing bad about being old, I’m planning to be old myself.

Mark Alexander:                  But and [inaudible] got to hang out with him at Paleo FX and I mean he’s 80 and think he’s middle age and that’s great I mean because he eccentric training and exercise in particular but he utilizes resistance training all the time. Anyway I think that first off just getting over the fact that I see them they think well I’ve done my hard work therefore I don’t need to exercise, it’s not entirely true. If you want to continue to live get off the couch and be mobile, you should exercise.

I would say that resistance exercise is probably where everyone should start, again I’m bias here. But I think it should be the foundation for everyone.

Dave Asprey:                          As a former long distance cyclist who was fat the whole time, I have to agree with you.

Mark Alexander:                  Okay well good.

Dave Asprey:                          Lifting everything is those kind of matters.

Mark Alexander:                  I know but and again just trying to, if we’re talking about the older generation let’s call it 70 and plus, bone mineral density is important. A fall will contribute to mortality and death and it’s sad because that can be prevented. You just want to move better and if you ever fall you don’t want to get hurt. Those are a couple simple things.

Dave Asprey:                          If you’re over 80s now is it public how many ARXs are out there?

Mark Alexander:                  Mike would have a better.

Dave Asprey:                          Are you willing to talk about that?

Mark Alexander:                  I mean we’re in the hundreds of units out there, so thousands and tens of thousands potentially people using it now.

Dave Asprey:                          At this point is someone is like I want to try this new tag you’re going to find a higher end trainer who has in their facility that for the most part?

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          I want to make sure that-

Mark Alexander:                  We talk about the facility types here in a minute but yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay, I want to make sure that everyone listening just understands like resistance training however you get it is going to really beneficial and this is a faster and better way having I mean I’ve-

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah safer more effective more efficient, yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          I have dusty kettlebells downstairs, because I also have an ARX on site. This is designed for primarily people to use in a facility. This isn’t a home device unless you’re in a particular wealthy home gym category.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah I was going to say I mean there are definitely people that have them in their homes with our latest software upgrades our automatic, which is a self-driving feature for ARX. It’s perfect for the home; I’ve been blessed to have one in my home for many years. Just like you I’m husband, I’m a dad I mean these things first, oh and then I’m entrepreneur and I run a company. To me that has been a lifesaver. If anyone is incredibly busy yes you can ARX in your home, but it comes at a cost but you absolutely could.

Dave Asprey:                          For people listening going all right I’m interested, you got to find somebody that has one nearby or you can go to the gym and you can do a machine you can do this with barbells, kettlebells, bodyweight, whatever but the whole point is resistance exercise is important and there is various levels of efficiency that you can drive out of this.

All right we were talking about older and putting an older person on there, 80 plus. All right so now you’re at the 60 to 80 time zone. You’re still relatively [inaudible 00:31:40] but you’re probably seeing this, what is resistance exercise, ARX or not, like what’s that going to do for you?

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah in so kind of let’s call it the baby boomers. These are people that I see they still know exercise is good and they’ve probably been a little tarnished similar to the generation X of the aerobic bias in exercise. I think the first lot is exercise equals I’m going to go running. Break that we’re still talking about resistance exercise. I always say anyone over 50 especially females, Caucasian females over 50 should really be concerned about bone mineral density especially smaller frame.

Again the bone mineral density is still there, and the let’s keep up with your grand kids, your grand kids are bundles of energy and in order to keep up with them you need to mobile you need to be strong and your body has to be able to adapt to getting to low places and getting back to high places and things like that.

Dave Asprey:                          Resistance exercise is going to drive your bone density more than cardio?

Mark Alexander:                  Absolutely it’s really … I mean you have to load the skeletal muscle system in order to get the bone mineral density and you should it in a way that’s safe and calculated quantified.

Dave Asprey:                          If you’re a baby boomer like my parents and you’re thinking I don’t really like exercise here is the deal, it probably does suck to go lift weights every day. You may just really get into it there are people who do that. In fact, you might need to recover though occasionally if you’re lifting weight every day. I found even when I was young when I was fat, I was doing 45 minutes of cardio, 45 minutes of weight 6 days a week and I did that for 18 months and I still weighed 300 pounds.

I could max out all the machines and I was still fat and it wasn’t cool. A lot times in that age range at least my parents it’s like I don’t really like exercise. But we’re talking with an ARX kind of set up 15 minutes once a week.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay and if you were maybe twice a week if you really want to, but in that age range once is that enough per week?

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah I mean for what’s called the majority of the health benefits and fighting against the bio markers of aging you really can with 15 to 20 minutes a week get the fruit of that labor if you will.

Dave Asprey:                          I think Doug McGuff who’s a physician who’s been on Bulletproof radio and was at the first Paleo FX and has spoken at the Bulletproof conference as well I think he was one of the first physicians to really drive this notion into the public that says brief amounts of resistance exercise. All of sudden it goes from it’s a big chore to once a week do it.

I’ll just tell you get a trainer, you don’t have to this yourself and that’s also a baby boomer thing. I’m going to do it all myself, come on, like you got to hire somebody to cut your hair, hire somebody to help you pick up everything so you don’t hurt yourself.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah it’s all worth the investment.

Dave Asprey:                          Then all the motivation that you’re going to have to self-source, you have someone there motivating you for you, so it’s just less cognitive and mental energy.

Mark Alexander:                  Well and studies have also shown even if you did know everything, which no one does, just me standing over your shoulder you’ll have about a 5 to 10% improvement just because I’m standing there. I can say nothing but having someone in charge if you will and programming and helping you prescribe is key.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s helpful and so that would just be advice. If they’re going for the ultimate there I would say ARX is pretty darn incredible, then the next level down would be to work with the trainer either with machines or with free weights so that’s a good recommendation.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah make sure you’re moving well you’re not injured and the trainer knows how to work around your imbalances we all have them. But yeah progressive, program in other words you’re probably going to lift a little bit more weight as you go progressive overload is a big principal there. You want to do it more times than not slowly and controlled. Similar to kind of how Doug prescribes it so.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay and then lest see I guess the final way, you can still do it at home, or you could even do pushups right?

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah instead of just trying to pound them out, maybe take your time on the way down and then within reason get back up and even if you can’t do a push up take your time on the way down do the eccentric phase or just the lowering phase and do that over and over. You can do that with pull ups if you can, do a pull up. Climb to the top and lower yourself very slowly, it’s hugely beneficial for gaining strength.

Dave Asprey:                          It is actually ridiculous the difference between doing 20 pushups and doing 5 pushups that take 30 second each.

Mark Alexander:                  Yes.

Dave Asprey:                          You will throw muscle on, it’s completely crazy, but is that-

Mark Alexander:                  That’s true. Like I said even though you’re not using a tool you’re maximizing our body’s response to eccentric overload so yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          All right now we go back in time a little bit. You’re in that 40 to 60, right?

Mark Alexander:                  Right.

Dave Asprey:                          You still want to look good.

Mark Alexander:                  Well we’re in that stage of we’re producers for our family, probably the highest income earning potential phase for your life and you’re busy. You don’t have time for exercise but you do have some extra money so throw it at a trainer, throw it at a gym membership that you have access to high quality trainers hopefully or just equipment. Studies have shown that you need to be near it, so it’s either at your home or it’s out you know somewhere that’s very close to where you live or work.

Dave Asprey:                          There’s different physiological benefits though in that age range, like what are you going to see differently from 40 to 60 years.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah the hormonal response just like you know how you eat affects your hormones and again we don’t have to go down that rabbit trail but most of your listeners probably recognize that, resistance exercise has a tremendous hormonal response.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah.

Mark Alexander:                  Whether your male or female, muscle tissue is metabolic currency and you should have it if you don’t you’re not going to be as healthy of a human.

Dave Asprey:                          You raise your testosterone; normalize your estrogen levels for men and women things like that.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay and then for people who are under 40 right, let’s say 20 to 40 because different things happen to teenagers. What’s the deal there?

Mark Alexander:                  Well instead of income potential you’re probably at your health potential if you will. You’re after 20 or 25 you’re kind of in a state of health decline unless you do something about it. There is so much potential from pubescent on to let’s call it 30, 35 to where your body will respond and you should take advantage of that. I wish I was there sometimes still. Although look at you, I mean it still respond it doesn’t I mean your biological age doesn’t really matter at some point, I guess that point should be made too.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s a fair point there are stages of normal hormonal and growth and decline mitochondria become less efficient overtime. But yeah one of the reasons I started Bulletproof, I’m like if somebody had just told me any of this when I was 16 or 20.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah I know.

Dave Asprey:                          The damage I did and also just the wasted energy and time and struggling with being tired. I did lift weights but I did way too often and probably entirely wrong. I didn’t recover and ate the wrong crap and all that stuff. The idea here is if you’re listening and I’ll just tell you this look I’m 44, I turn 45 this year, I have more energy now than I did when I was 25 because I was doing it wrong.

If you’re in that age rage and you want to live to 180 like I’m going to, or maybe if even want to beat me, which hey let’s race I’m good with that, I’m going to die trying, you know what I’m saying.

Mark Alexander:                  That’s real.

Dave Asprey:                          Totally, but what you can do is you can stack the deck; you’ve got to do this when you’re young. You can stack the deck. You’re like oh I’m 60 and I’m completely kicking ass compared to everyone else around me because they wasted it all early. This isn’t really about prevention you get more energy right now and all this and we’re not talking going to gym every day although you can if you want to do that.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah if that’s your thing.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah we’re talking about what probably in that age range, couple of times a week is usually normal?

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah usually it’s just fitted in your schedule, Monday and Thursday whatever works because usually our calendar drives our lives whether we want it or not. All the same for sorry we’re down the younger generation, I’d say calendar still probably drivers their lives too.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah that and social media.

Mark Alexander:                  Well and you can compete and put it up there yeah and show your ARX results.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah all right and then there are some specific things if you’re under say under 19 or something under 20, what’s different about weight training at that age?

Mark Alexander:                  You know the amount of load and consistent loading should be monitored and kind of what movements are done. I think there is a tendency for especially with being a teenage boy at one point in time, over emphasizing certain muscle groups like chest if you’re going to do bench press all day and pushups to finish off and that’s your workout.

What that does overtime is just be cautious because it will create imbalances. We should probably in general I think do more posterior work or more pulling or more things for the back of our body than our front of our body. But we see the front in the mirror so that’s kind of what we focus on.

Dave Asprey:                          One of things to just know as a guy if you have like a nice back you’re not going to see the women looking at it but they’re going to look at it more because you’re not going to make eye contact when they’re doing it. But if you ask a woman who’s being honest they kind of appreciate a good back as much as they do a good chest.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          They ogle as much as they want and it’s like you’re providing a public service with your lats.

Mark Alexander:                  Well and we were talking about this actually yes, public service with your lats.

Dave Asprey:                          Not that I ever found … I was fat back then.

Mark Alexander:                  We were talking about social media I mean even my kids I have two teenage kids and the text neck and the bend over I mean they need to rowing, they need to be doing these exercises that help with the postural support. If anything just get them rowing and doing some pull ups or chin ups or pull down something so that they’re negating that I mean and we fight it because we’re on computers. But I’ve seen some poor posture in young kids.

Dave Asprey:                          If you look at that whole essentially lifespan that we’ve just gone through there you have the potential with ARX to just solve some global health issues.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Like if people were to do this on a weekly basis what are the types of issues that you think we could address?

Mark Alexander:                  I think that’s a great question. I think there is a twofold answer here. First off we’re on a mission to democratize exercise. We want to make sure it’s accessible to everyone and specifically resistance exercise. Those benefits are immense but we have to do our fair share of making sure resistance exercise is accessible to the masses, that a little difficult. But again that’s kind of thinking big that’s a big issue we want to help solve. I think the global health issues take diabetes, you know how many, I feel like you-

Dave Asprey:                          I think it’s a-

Mark Alexander:                  You got some research here.

Mike Pullano:                       Since 2012 1 in 10 in the united states and that’s just people with diabetes not people who are approaching diabetic levels. That number’s higher in terms of people who are in danger.

Dave Asprey:                          If you have diabetes you should follow the America Heart Association Diet, which is lots of sugar, lots of carbs only bad fats and lots of cardio, right?

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah straight to your grave.

Dave Asprey:                          No coconut oil for sure.

Mike Pullano:                       We’re in a great place now because of those recommendations. By the numbers I can say that.

Mark Alexander:                  Clearly they can see that it’s going.

Mike Pullano:                       We’re in the right track.

Dave Asprey:                          You guys clearly saw their like failed media campaign about coconut oil. I’ve never seen any backlash bigger than the one, it’s like guys you stepped on that, like come on.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah that was asking for it.

Dave Asprey:                          Social media for the win.

Mark Alexander:                  But no I mean so what does resistance exercise do to glucose levels? Well you can get rid of excess sugar when done properly and kind of flush the system if you will so it’s a metabolic restart if you will. We’ve seen the numbers of people doing ARX specifically but also just resistance exercise of glucose levels being under control. Even diabetics that are insulin dependent can minimize the amount of insulin that they’re using.

Dave Asprey:                          That’s pretty incredible stuff. I definitely noticed when I have my continuous glucose monitor on, things I talked about at the beginning after workout you see your blood sugar drop because what’s going on there and this is like straight out of Head Strong the book.

Well let’s see your body is like, I think I need some energy, so it’s going to call on energy stores, mitochondria open up and they start creating the electric energy from food that’s required to sustain that effort. Instead of I’m just going to do like 40 reps with my two pounds you know my two pounds.

Mark Alexander:                  Pink dumbbell [crosstalk 00:44:34]

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah my pink dumbbell. I was like, I lifted weights so I didn’t want to get bulky, it doesn’t work like that. By telling them you know what if you can’t handle it die. That’s actually what this kind of exercise says to the mitochondria. When die … These are tiny ancient bacteria inside the body, all right good you want to kill the weak ones because if you don’t kill them they turn into cancer, like it’s kind of important.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah super important.

Dave Asprey:                          All right this kind of stuff can shift it from we should all go, I’ll go lift weights to maybe it take less time and you get more benefit in the amount of time, which has a meaningful impact on-

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah with time being one of the major deterrents for consistent exercise. We solved the time thing, so we’ve got that one solved.

Dave Asprey:                          There is something else that’s driven a lot of my career and it’s called big data. A lot of people don’t know this I was an angel investor, one of the very first ones in the first big data company. They were called Ademark and they’re … I have this problem I typically I’m like 5 to 10 years ahead of my time I’m like damn it, this is a while back. This was a company that was doing semi structured data analysis in a way that is very common now, but it was the first one and they ended up becoming a security company and getting acquired someone or another.

Mark Alexander:                  Usually happens.

Dave Asprey:                          It was a small acquisition it was a successful investment because it was too early. But the tech just had me blown away. I spoke even at the first big data conference way back in the day about health information of big data. You’re in an interesting position because ARX devices are at personal trainers and exercise facilities around. If they’re not at yours you can probably talk with your exercise people and just be like I think it would be really cool to have one of these. I would pay more-

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah in five minutes they’re convinced yeah they realize what the benefits are.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah I would pay more time to work out … I would pay more dollars to work out less. Like I’ll buy my time back.

Mark Alexander:                  We’re saving you.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah.

Mark Alexander:                  We’re saving you that.

Dave Asprey:                          As a trainer you’re like, wait I could get more clients per hour, hold on. This might work for both of us, right. That’s the big thing but the background on this is the big data play. Now you’re in a position to get the workout information and not just like how many reps at what weight, which is like okay that’s trivial.

It’s like for a man or a woman of this height and this BMI of this age at this time of day doing this kind of exercise; this is exactly how much power they could generate. You don’t know what they drank the night before; you don’t know the other health data.

Mark Alexander:                  There is other variables just like there would always be in any research.

Dave Asprey:                          I mean you could probably like I said you could figure out people are stronger at 10:00 am than 2:00 pm let’s say I have no idea if that’s true or not, I would guess it’s probably true for most people. But you’ll actually see trends that are invisible. I mean fully invisible.

Mark Alexander:                  More specifically with resistance exercise we’re in a position now to be a big data source if you will for resistance exercise, which everyone has jumped on the biometric data train on the endurance side of things, which I don’t know how many steps really means in the whole grand scheme of things, just not [inaudible]

Dave Asprey:                          I can tell you, I don’t know if you remember this I was CTO of one of the wrist band companies. The first one they got heart rate from the wrist it was called Basis and Intel bought them for $100 million. I was not there for a huge amount of time because I was like heart rate variability and they’re like no we need steps, like steps are masturbation I’m sorry. The number of steps you take in a day isn’t very important. The number of calories per day.

Mark Alexander:                  They’re moving on to-

Dave Asprey:                          Hold on do you guys hear that the screeching?

Mark Alexander:                  Yes.

Dave Asprey:                          That’s an eagle.

Mark Alexander:                  I was going to say that’s a predator bird. I recognize the-

Dave Asprey:                          It’s a bald eagle interrupting our podcast; all right that’s why I live on Vancouver Island.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah that’s great.

Dave Asprey:                          I think the mic has actually picked that up, I hope it did. That’s cool.

Mark Alexander:                  That was very cool yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          All right keep going.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah we have this unearthed potential if you will to start recognizing trends in resistance exercise. We don’t know what we don’t know. But not only for the performance side of things but for the prescription side of things so what is ideal? We don’t know but we can start to see those trends and start to see, yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          It may change my age it may change my gender. I mean there is a whole mapping of resistance exercise especially for women for phases of the moon and monthly cycles. There probably is for men too. We all know a full moon affects people and if you’re out there going full moon doesn’t affect me, it’s like ask any cop any emergency room doctor, any firemen whether the full moon matters?

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah phasic training should be part of our programming but we don’t always recognize it.

Dave Asprey:                          I’m really excited to see what happens when you have a data base of millions of workouts because we can run that through machine learning algorithms and we’ll know things about exercises that have never been discoverable before. That’s meaningful.

Mark Alexander:                  Then there is artificial intelligence to do the programming on the actual device itself and yeah we’re not there yet but we’re aiming there, or directionally trying to go that way.

Dave Asprey:                          I think that’s one of the biggest things and this is why I moved out you know data centers and computer security into how do you get monitoring data off the human body because I got tired of monitoring serves and correlating information from a million servers. It’s like what if you correlate information from a million people. It’s actually way more interesting.

What else is … What’s next with ARX, I mean we just talked about the big data play is there any other cool secret stuff you going to have like a-

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah you can talk about a little bit of that Mike.

Mike Pullano:                       Just the biggest thing lately has been taking the trainer who used to have to push buttons and control this motorized machine back and forth out of equation and just making it a self-driving automatic system that you can just use this system by yourself.

Most importantly along that big data play is it makes every workout exactly the way you want it. We are just showing you that not only can you control how many reps it does you can control the speed at which it moves on the positive. Let’s say you want it to go five seconds on the positive or you want to over accentuate the negative you can make it go 10 seconds on the negative.

Then repeat that time in and time again at the exact ranges of motion every time designed for you saved in the software. That means your workouts are so much more precise than they’ve ever been and that the data is more valuable than it’s ever been. Because we can really see granular improvements over time and so whatever generation as you guys were talking about is trying to train you can say well how does this type of protocol affect grandma but how does this protocol also affect a 22 year old football player.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay.

Mike Pullano:                       Right so we can look at that and actually repeat it over time. Really get the data play and the actual hardware to communicate that’s been the largest advancement for us and it opens up a ton of doors.

Dave Asprey:                          Awesome, I’m not sure what else we can chat about here is anything else about or is there some exercise we didn’t cover, because I know we … Like I look at demographics and I know who’s listening right now and we have about an even number of men and women listening to the show. We have a lot of physician’s, trainers, and particularly like in Wall Street in L.A. and Silicon Valley and things like that.

Then just tons of people who just well they’re exercising, well they’re doing dishes well they’re at are work or driving a lot just all across the country, but it’s cool because it’s not just a bunch of bros and it’s not only yoga mums, but it’s been pretty democratizing where it’s like look controlling your own biology is really important.

I think resistance training has consistently been just under represented in the conscious. It’s like we’re on this low fat kick and so low fat, but what about the role of fat and we’re on this aerobics kick. Where it’s like I’m a good person, I go for a run every day.

Well whether you go for a run or whether you lift it has nothing to do with whether you’re a person or not first of all like remove that and second of all in terms of bang for the buck, if someone has an hour a week to exercise, if they use it on weights versus cardio.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah you’re going to more bang for your buck. If we told you there is a magic pill well we kind of have it and I don’t know why more people aren’t recognizing it. Part of it another kind of submission if you will of ours but objective of ours is to change the accessibility to what that venue of health looks like.

Your labs concept in Santa Monica is a prime example of that. We want more of those type of facilities. We want where hopefully they’re run by intelligent, well-meaning people that are trying to advance human kind advance health and do it in a way that … Yeah it’s not broscience as you were saying.

We’re having to shift the paradigm a little bit here in terms of who is operating and owning these facilities but what we’re starting to see and Mike has seen more of them hands on than I have when we’re doing installations, I mean talk about some of the other aligning technologies and programs they’re doing.

Mike Pullano:                       Sure I think with this new model that people are building, they’re taking a lot of the guess work of just making yourself a better human. Particularly with ARX I think you said you didn’t know why resistance training hasn’t … It’s such a great thing we know there is so much to be gained from it but yet so many people don’t do it. Well there is a lot of guess work involved there is a lot of competing information that you get from Muscle & Fitness magazine and some latest blogger guy that shows up who’s got a six pack and he’s telling you what to do now.

Mark Alexander:                  He must be right.

Dave Asprey:                          Sure he’s [inaudible]

Dave Asprey:                          The six pack comes from your plate. I mean the plate that goes in your barbell.

Mark Alexander:                  Yes exactly.

Mike Pullano:                       It just becomes this chasing your tail game that everyone plays and eventually you’re just tired and you say you know what, I’m tired of guessing wrong in the gym it’s not working for me, similar to how you were doing with training and doing aerobics training.

At some point in time you just give up and that’s kind of where the state of the industry is, is this constant roller coaster of people getting excited about something, realizing that it ultimately isn’t the thing that they want or they’re not actually doing it the way they’re supposed to be doing it. They’re guessing wrong all the time, and then they fade away, right and so you lose motivation in it.

Creating a new facility that uses technology to solve a lot of those problems for us so that we can go in and be focused about with a good intention to benefit ourselves whether that be with exercise, whether that be with flow tanks or infrared sauna or vibration therapy, NeurOptimal brain training.

What we’re seeing now is that ARX affiliates people who are taking part with our company are also looking to add on other tools and tech to make that. Exercise is what you come for, because everyone agrees that you need to do it, great you just made that easy for me, what else can you make easy for me? I’m like well why don’t you go stand on that vibration therapy for a little while at that point over there.

Dave Asprey:                          I guess you were saying like most of your customers have a Bulletproof Vibe, which I didn’t even know till this morning.

Mike Pullano:                       Yeah.

Mark Alexander:                  It fits well within [inaudible]

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah Bulletproof Vibe if you haven’t seen it, it’s on the Bulletproof website. It’s a really high quality vibration plate that uses the frequency identified by NASA to make astronauts recover. You stand on this, it’s also written about in Head Strong. You stand on it for even 10 minutes and it vibrates you 30 times a second, wakes up your mitochondria, it’s like going for a brisk walk for a long time and you can literally do it to loosen up get the muscle ready before or to recover after using ARX. I thought that was cool.

Mike Pullano:                       People are coming and they want to use the latest and greatest but they also want to leave feeling like they got good value for their time. Those two work really well together because it’s a very, just a parent effect it has. After that we get into some of the more deeper bio hacks if you will and talk about light and all those kind of things.

That’s the new model is and we see this with a lot of people at the Bulletproof conference that whole convention center is just filled with amazing technology and some people are like well ARX is great for this, but have you thought about combining it with Kaatsu or with New Fit Electrical Simulation and starting to make the connections so that we could be a better overall person and do it in less time. That’s really where we’re at.

Mark Alexander:                  Some of the origination and historical context of early 19th century or 20 century stuff was exercise was for health. I think unfortunately especially with resistance exercise we’ve gotten away from that exercise equals body building resistance exercise equals body building.

Now a lifestyle body builder might have good biomarkers of health not the [inaudible 00:57:39] out huge guys but let’s extract the health benefits again and focus on that versus just how jacked can I get or how big can I get or … These things that really have no health commitment probably health detriments actually.

Dave Asprey:                          Well one of the reasons that I wrote the definition for biohacking I didn’t trademark the word when I was coming up with this is I wanted there to be a name where like, okay I’m a body builder I don’t do anything else, I’m into anti-aging so I only eat like twigs you know the I’m going to starve myself for [crosstalk]. There is no overlap when you’re like this is what I do.

But what we’re all really working on is that how do you have control over your own biology. Your goals maybe very different like you may have like me, one of my goals is every day when I’m done with work and today I’m doing three podcasts, I’m recording what’s actually some really cool people later today. But cognitively I mean, the [crosstalk].

Mike Pullano:                       We’re only half cool we’re not really, slightly cool.

Dave Asprey:                          They are not here though. I mean I just I have a pretty high bar to get on Bulletproof Radio anyway. Sometimes you’re like wow I never would have in a thousand years thought I would talk to in this case it’s Chef Gordon.

Mark Alexander:                  I’ve seen that document.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s documented, this guy is Alice Cooper agent but five years ago you would have said Dave someday you’re going to interview or even meet Chef Gordon, I’d be like what? I couldn’t see me interviewing you five years ago, I’m like actually I did meet you five years ago.

Mike Pullano:                       Well I mean [crosstalk] we’re even at your conference so that was like a highlight of mine anyway that’s something else.

Dave Asprey:                          Anyway I’m just blown away by that stuff. But it’s cognitively demanding to be present for something like that. I’ve got phone calls and meetings like all the rest of the day. One of my goals as a biohacker is all right, on top of that as soon as I’m done I’m going to go play with my kids and not be tired and not need, have to unwind. Then I want to help make dinner or be with Lana and then it’s well I still have some stuff I want to do, so she’s going to go bed, I want to have enough energy to work on my next book and to probably dig out from under all the emails because I have been gone for 10 days.

All that stuff, my goal is energy and that’s very different from the body builder and I think there is more people going for that goal, right? Especially if you’re working and then commuting and then you have two young kids and you got to clean the house and just deal with all the stuff of life, that’s actually the number reason that biohacking matters. Then you’ve got the live forever, be ripped, be lean, or there is all sorts of other fingers, I want to hold my breath longer than anyone else. All those are united by the site of having control versus that one goal.

Mark Alexander:                  Yes take control of your health it’s there for you to own and yeah there is nothing holding you back but yourself really and I applaud your efforts with what you’re doing.

Dave Asprey:                          Well likewise guys I’m grateful that you’ve helped me take some shortcuts here to keep my muscle mass so what the New York Times called almost muscular, I was like.

Mark Alexander:                  [Inaudible]

Dave Asprey:                          I think they did I’m like [crosstalk] I’m like thanks guys. As an aging profession I take that as a compliment. Because if you’re too muscular you got the IGF-1 issues you’re going to have some aging issues.

Mark Alexander:                  Again it’s the health right, I mean it’s all to me the foundation is health and so.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah all right onto the final question for Bulletproof Radio. You guys prepared have you been studying?

Mark Alexander:                  I don’t know.

Mike Pullano:                       I don’t know depends on the question.

Dave Asprey:                          I’m going to ask you two just separately just so we can get this, just want to get two answers each just so the show doesn’t go too long. All right if someone came to you tomorrow and said, I want to be better at everything I do just as a human being, what are the two most important pieces of advice do you have for me, what would you offer. Let’s start with you Mark and then we’ll go to Mike.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah implement proper resistance exercise. Of course ARX is a great tool to do that but even if you don’t have access I would suggest.

Dave Asprey:                          You’re going to plug ARX.

Mark Alexander:                  Sorry no.

Dave Asprey:                          I’m just giving you a hard time.

Mark Alexander:                  I know.

Dave Asprey:                          No but you’re saying resistance training.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          It wouldn’t be alone.

Mark Alexander:                  Implement proper resistance exercise we talked about generational advantages and benefits so whether you have to hire a trainer or whatever just get that as party of your life and your routine, wow! The other thing I would say would just be to and I don’t want to go deep on a diet rabbit hole but you had said in effect abs are made in the kitchen not in the gym and we know that.

But I would just say to implement a diet, the Bulletproof Diet something along the lines where you’re going to maximize your hormone and you’re also going to most likely mitigate the insulin peaks and valleys. I think that those two things there is a lot that you could do but resistance exercise and kind of keep your hormonal and insulin response from your diet in check.

Dave Asprey:                          Awesome so basically exercise and food.

Mark Alexander:                  Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          You would not be alone in saying those, it’s surprising.

Mark Alexander:                  That’s not unique or anything.

Dave Asprey:                          It doesn’t have to be unique but it’s important, I want everyone who hears this to just be like wait, like the people who are disrupting businesses who are doing great and amazing things across the whole variety of life, what do they think about. It’s amazing the commonality there.

Mark Alexander:                  I’ll break the rule because I always do, but I mean I always think in threes, it’s influences spiritual health as well. Do things are going to make sure that cognitively you’re functioning well and whatever your belief system is or whatever that you’re meditating, you’re praying whatever you get your mind and spirit right for the day.

Dave Asprey:                          All right, so you did your three all right. Mike you got three for us or are they the same?

Mike Pullano:                       I’m just going to take two. Along those lines I think just more globally the way I think and a lot of people on our team and a lot of the people who are into ARX think is you got to check the boxes of what it means to be a human and by the that the fundamentals are the fundamentals for a reason. You have to drink water, you have to sleep. You can’t hack all of those at some point you need to get resistance training. You need to bend bones so yet you have bone [inaudible].

These are human things that you can’t not have. You got to check the box it’s kind of a thing that I have when I’m stressed out I’m on the road, I’m noticing some kind of issue that I’m dealing with. Am I checking the boxes right, I didn’t sleep more than six hours for four days in a row and I’m stressed out of my mind.

I’m not checking the box so that’s kind of a, I guess a person slogan that I have. I think Head Strong does a great job of explaining what those fundamentals are and then how to really focus on them and resistance training and mind health and all of those things are checking the box.

In the process of doing that and reminding yourself of that the second thing is to pay attention. Just pay attention to some of the things that happening in your environment that are happening to you on a daily basis, that are happening in your relationships around you. They all play a role in allowing you or not allowing you to check your box of what it is to be a human.

Those two things together on repeat forever until you don’t exist on this world is the way that I think about things and you’re always changing. What you know today or what you are today might not be what it is in a month or a year if you decide to start a company and you got to keep paying attention and you got to keep checking the boxes so check the boxes and pay attention.

Dave Asprey:                          Love it all right guys thanks for being on Bulletproof Radio.

Mark Alexander:                  It was awesome, thank you.

Mike Pullano:                       It was great to be here.

Dave Asprey:                          If you liked today’s episode there is a couple of things you could do, one of them is go to iTunes and give us a five star rating that really helps other people find the show, and we’ve got more than a thousand and I’m incredibly grateful for that. There something else you can do if Bulletproof Diet or Head Strong or just all this knowledge more than 450 episodes over the last few years have been helpful for you would you go to Amazon go the Head Strong book and leave a review.

It will literally take you maybe 20, 30 seconds, leave a little five star review if you think the book’s earned that. Tell people what’s good about it, that helps other people discover the book and I read all those reviews. If you really want to just personally say thanks you might get a chance to meet me person and say thanks or say hi and I’m always happy to hear that. But I don’t get to meet that many people because I’m just one person.

But if you go to Amazon it spreads the love in a really helpful and amazing way. I really appreciate it if you just leave a quick review, have an awesome day.


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The Entertaining Tales of a Legendary Talent Manager and Supermensch – Shep Gordon


Why you should listen –

In the course of his long-running career as a manager, agent and film producer, Shep Gordon has worked with some of the most successful recording artists, chefs, and actors in the business – and he has the amazing stories to prove it! Well-known for managing musician Alice Cooper and a slew of Hollywood actors, Shep is also credited with revolutionizing the culinary arts industry by representing celebrity chefs, such as Wolfgang Puck and Emeril Lagasse. Author of “They Call Me Supermensch”, and subject of a documentary featuring his nickname, Shep shares some incredible accounts with Dave in this lively yet intimately personal discussion. From his focus on philanthropy, to his “inside joke” with the Dalai Lama, to his innate ability to develop trust with his clients – oh, and that time he got punched in the face by Janis Joplin! – Shep regales Dave with some truly unbelievable stories. You won’t want to miss today’s episode, it’s epic!

Enjoy the show!

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*See full transcript below Show Notes section

Show Notes

Shep Gordon: Links and Info

Website: ShepGordon.com

Twitter: @SupermenschShep

Facebook: Facebook.com/SupermenschShep

Buy Shep’s book, “They Call Me Supermensch”

Check out Shep’s documentary, “Supermensch”

  • Bulletproof Coach Training: If you want to feel your best, perform your best and help others do the same then take a look at our Bulletproof Coach Training. It’s an incredible training, one that combines the best of performance coaching with biohacking and personal development. Go to bulletprooftraininginstitute.com for more information
  • MUSE: Special offer for Bulletproof Radio listeners! $50 off by using the code bulletproof17 when you order at choosemuse.com
  • Cool Fact of the Day: There is a really easy way to increase your brain function, find out what it is…
  • Squatty Potty: Get your butt over to their website and receive a 20% discount by going to squattypotty.com/bulletproof.  *When you add any item to the cart, your 20% discount will be applied in the cart before you check out!
  • Check out Bulletproof Coconut Charcoal, one of Dave’s favorite products
  • If you think this show is worth your time and you liked it, go to iTunes and leave us some 5-star feedback and a review
  • Dave intros Shep Gordon, legendary Hollywood talent manager and subject of the documentary, “Supermensch”
  • Shep rarely has formal, signed contracts with his famous clients; he explains why
  • Shep explains the level of trust he develops with his clients, how he can spot talent, and the unique quality he shares with music producer, Rick Rubin
  • How Shep feels about religion and spirituality, the cultural aspects of Judaism he embraces, and Buddhism
  • Shep describes the cleansing experience of meeting the Dalai Lama, and how he bonded with him over yak tea
  • Shep talks about his history with rock star Alice Cooper, one of his longest and closest clients
  • How getting parents to hate Alice Cooper made him and his client hugely successful, and the billboard stunt they pulled in London
  • Shep’s book, “They Call Me Supermensch”
  • Shep’s motto, and a great story of how it started when he was in college
  • Shep’s interesting strategy behind another successful Alice Cooper promo
  • Shep talks about his past psychedelic drug use and how it impacted him
  • Hollywood of the 70s vs. Hollywood today – what’s changed, and how AIDS shifted the entire landscape
  • AMAZING STORY of Janis Joplin punching Shep in the face! And how Jimi Hendrix helped kick off his career as a manager
  • Why it’s important to recognize and grab opportunities…and leave emotion out of it
  • Why philanthropy is so important to Shep, and why the culinary arts is not just about feeding rich people; it’s about helping to solve hunger, too
  • Shep’s three most important pieces of advice for performing better in all aspects of life


Full Transcript

Speaker 1:                               Bulletproof Radio. A state of high performance.

Dave Asprey:                          You’re listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today’s cool fact of the day, is that there’s a strange and easy way to increase your brain function, and it comes from something as simple as putting your phone far away from you. There was a recent experiment where they had people take exams, and they found that people who kept their phones in a different room, performed way better than people who had their phones on the desk in front of them.

It’s because the participant’s weren’t distracted because they were getting notifications on their phones. It turns out that the presence of a smartphone alone was enough to reduce their test performance, even if the phone was off. The reason for that is that your body spends some percentage of your precious mitochondrial energy looking for possible patterns that might be a threat. If the phone’s there, a message could come through that might be dangerous.

Now you know that’s not the case, but your body doesn’t know that because your body is a pattern matching machine run by mitochondria. So, since it’s dumb, change the environment around you so that you have better performance. That’s biohacking. If changing the environment means tossing your phone in the other room when you’re taking a test, hey, what if you’ve got an unfair advantage?

Today before we get going, I want to talk about one of my favorite biohacks, a product that I’ve had on the Bulletproof site for quite a long time. It’s called Bulletproof Coconut Charcoal. This is something that literally changed my life when I was working to turn my brain back on. I was just dealing with not feeling good a lot. I would go to a restaurant, I’d eat something and then I would just feel like a zombie sometimes. I’m sure you’ve probably had that happen, at least occasionally and sometimes you even know you’re gonna feel like a zombie because you’re cheating. And hey, that happens.

What you can do with the Bulletproof Coconut Charcoal is, you can take it any time you’re feeling bloated, you feel weird, just kind of puffiness, anytime you feel brain fog, or anytime you’re going to eat something you ought not to eat. What it does is it binds to toxins in the gut, which means that your liver won’t have to do the work of actually processing those toxins or your kidneys. What happens there is that your body eats these toxins. They’re mostly protein based toxins. Mold toxins are a very common one, but many other protein based toxins, like even some lectins, which are plant based toxins, because plants don’t want you to eat their babies, those things are in there. They’ll have a positive charge. The charcoal that we use has a very strong negative charge, and a huge surface area. Something around a teaspoon of the charcoal has a surface area that could be as big as, say, an actual football field.

What you’re doing there is you have these tiny little things that are super attractive, and they suck everything that stick to them, by the way, that includes prescription medications, or expensive supplements, so you take the charcoal away from them. I like to take the charcoal a half hour before a meal, or with a meal, but not with a supplement. What happens when you do the BulletProof Coconut Charcoal is that, it sticks to these toxins and then you feel better. If you’ve already had the toxins, it draws the toxins towards it. You can see a difference in muffin top relatively quickly, which is kind of funny. On top of that, when my kids get wacky after a meal at a restaurant, I love to give them a little bit of the charcoal. Suddenly it’s like they return to their normal, relatively sane eight and 10 year old selves.

What we do that’s different in the Bulletproof Coconut Charcoal is … and this was a huge thing to put it on the market, was to make sure that we use the finest particle in existence, the finest one we could find anywhere. No other supplement company that I’ve ever been able to find uses this particle size, and there’s a reason. The tinier the particle, the more the surface area and the more it works. There are studies from the US Military showing that particle size drives whether or not it sticks to things like aflatoxin, which is an important mold toxin, one that’s most associated with cancer and other problems in the body. It’s the most dangerous of the mold toxins, at least we think it is.

So, kind of an interesting thing that the particle size matters. The reason it’s so annoying is that this stuff makes a huge black cloud when we’re manufacturing it, so we have to clean the entire facility after we make it for you, but it’s totally worth it. If you haven’t tried this stuff, it’s very affordable, it’s very effective, and it ought to be in your supplement cabinet, because when you take Bulletproof Coconut Charcoal, it’s just a great detoxing strategy, and it works.

Before we get into today’s, frankly, amazing episode, I’d love it if you took just a second to head on over to iTunes. You might already be there right now while you’re still listening and just leave some five star feedback. I look at the feedback, everyone else looks at the feedback and it’s one of the ways that you can signal that this show was worth your time. The way I look at Bulletproof Radio, is that we’ve got more than 50 million downloads. That’s 50 million hours of human lives. Now, if I’m wasting your time, I’m not providing value, if this isn’t something that’s useful for you, not just entertaining, but hopefully entertaining and useful, I hold myself to a pretty high standard. If you could’ve used that time for something better, and you didn’t, that makes me a mass murderer. If this was the highest and best use of your time, even if it’s while you’re driving or working or whatever else, then I did a good thing. But there’s no line in the middle.

I don’t want to waste your time. If this show is worth your time, then I’d love it if you left a review. And if it’s not worth your time, then click skip. But I promise you, this is probably the best episode I’ve ever recorded. It’s such a cool conversation. We go into some areas you wouldn’t even expect. Today’s guest is Shep Gordon. Shep is known as a talent manager. He’s the subject of a documentary that just came out that was absolutely amazing. It was called, was it Supermensch or The Mensch, what’s the exact name of it then?

Shep Gordon:                       Supermensch. Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Supermensch, okay. I was like Ubermensch? Supermensch? All right, Supermensch. You may have seen it, and I had the great pleasure of meeting Shep recently at Jayson Gaignard’s Mastermind Talks, which is a networking group, and was just blown away at your story, Shep.

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah, thanks.

Dave Asprey:                          You told things that I’ve never seen. For people listening, you’ve got to see the documentary, because it will blow your mind. If you want to know how, say, Alice Cooper got to be Alice Cooper, it was Shep. That’s why Shep is known in the entertainment industry for just finding talent way before anyone else does, understanding what people find interesting. We’re talking Alice Cooper, Groucho Marx, Raquel Welch, Luther Vandross, Kenny Loggins, and like 50 other clients. You told us on stage Shep, that you have never had a written contract with any of your clients. Is that true?

Shep Gordon:                       That’s true. Yeah. Well, I had one with Ann Murray, ’cause her lawyer wouldn’t let me do it without a contract. I just put a clause in it at the end that anybody could end it at any time. But for me, it was sort of a road block. As a manager, you have to be able to deliver news that the artist doesn’t want to hear. Anybody can tell them they’re great. You also have to have the ability to fail, which is probably the most important thing, as a manager, you have to be given the ability to do. Somehow that contract makes the relationship one of winners and losers, instead of an equal playing field.

I think all of us have felt that, when you have a contractual relationship and something goes wrong, sometimes your brain goes to instead of fixing it, “Oh my God. I can’t believe I got myself into this.” That was an emotion I didn’t have time for. And contracts, to me, mean lawsuits. I don’t like lawsuits. But, I never would do anything for my artists that wasn’t contractually correct. In other words, when they entered a relationship with a third party, I was a stickler on signed contracts.

Dave Asprey:                          Got it, so sort of, “Do as I say, not as I do.”

Shep Gordon:                       Exactly, ’cause my relationship was different. If it ended the next day, I could walk away and I was happy. That wasn’t the case usually in most business relationships that you do for an artist, or for anyone in life. When you have a disagreement, you need something to refer to. In my case, a disagreement referring was just get another manager.

Dave Asprey:                          There’s a level of trust that you clearly established with these artists when they’re young and maybe not so known, especially earlier in your career. I didn’t mention this, but also, you helped Wolfgang Puck and Nobu in the world of food, you probably had as big an influence as the World of Art. I know one other guy who has the same look in his eye as you. It’s Rick Rubin.

Shep Gordon:                       Oh yeah. A good friend, yeah. Love Rick.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, I love Rick.

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          But both of you, when you meet you in person, you both have this kind of sparkle and this twinkle in your eye that is incredibly rare. You also both have an eye for seeing talent before anyone else and helping the talent manifest itself. I want to know, were you born that way, or did you build that?

Shep Gordon:                       I think born that way, ’cause I never … you know, there was no training. I never woke up and said I wanted to be a manager. I never woke up and was excited by life, or not excited by life. I sort of took the path I took. I think, you know, I love Rick very much and I think the thing that we both share is a belief, sort of, in our own ability. We both sort of do it for ourselves. He’s very similar to me. If an artist doesn’t want to work with him, “God bless you.”

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah.

Shep Gordon:                       “God bless you. I hope you find exactly what you’re looking for. Love ya. If I can ever help you, great,” and move onto the next thing.

Dave Asprey:                          There’s a difference, and maybe I’m reading into this, but it’s just something that I’m perceiving, self-perception always has its flaws, but when you say that, it actually goes all the way down. It’s not the same thing that anyone else could say, because people will see on the show, you may be able to hear it in his voice, if you watch this on YouTube, you may be able to see it when you look at Shep right now. But, there’s something that’s more than integrity. It’s just like an awareness thing.

I’ve chatted with Rick, I haven’t interviewed Rick yet, but we’ve had many occasions to chat. I’m really curious, because I want to know, how do we teach other people, or how do I learn how to have just that level of alignment from when you can look at someone and say, “No, really. I want what’s best for you,” and to not have a little voice in there saying, “And what’s best for me.” How did you get there?

Shep Gordon:                       You know, I think I always sort of had it in me. I’m not a Buddhist, but I got very curious about Buddhism. I went to Chiang Mai on a vacation, my first real holiday when Alice was successful. It was the first time I could afford a vacation. In the drawer was not a Bible, but a Buddhist … like a book, I don’t know what, a prayer book. Buddhist prayer book, I think it was called. TV in those days, was mostly in Thai. I didn’t have much to do, and I started reading the book. As a kid growing up, I was raised as a Jew, proud to be a Jew, but, my attraction to Judaism was culture, not teachings. I was almost offended by the teachings.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow.

Shep Gordon:                       Things like, the price you paid for your ticket on the High Holy Days determine how close to the front you sat. I thought that was really weird. That’s weird for a religion to do. When they’re talking about everyone’s equal, you’re supposed to … So, there were little things like that I tripped over that a Rabbi wouldn’t marry a Jew and a non-Jew. I said, “Boy, that’s really weird to me. How can you love everyone and make that kind of differentiation?” It didn’t compute, but I wasn’t anti-Jewish. It just didn’t compute. It didn’t relate to me, but the culture, I love.

Dave Asprey:                          What were the things about growing up Jewish in Jewish culture that stood out most for you?

Shep Gordon:                       Meals were really important. Family, really important. Charitable work, really important. Taking care of your brother, really important. A really deep connection to generations before you and the sacrifice that they went through so that I could be at that table, having that meal. Just a beautiful sense of tribe. It was my first real sense of tribe. But the other side of the tribe didn’t make sense to me. It just didn’t. It was so different.

When I read the Buddhist, I said, “Wow, this is the stuff I believed in. Let me investigate this a little more.” I wrote a letter to a friend of mine from college, who I knew, knew everything in life. He wrote me back this beautiful 10 page letter about Buddhism, which ended with, “Now the most important thing in Buddhism: forget everything I told you. Your walks on the beach in the morning, that’s the essence of Buddhism.”

Dave Asprey:                          Wow.

Shep Gordon:                       Wow. So it made me really curious. Then I got lucky enough to have an encounter with His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, and was even more blessed, and helped to orchestrate, helped to create my own blessing. I got to cook for him.

Dave Asprey:                          Tell me a little bit more about that.

Shep Gordon:                       I got taken in Los Angeles. I already was curious about Buddhism, having read that book, had my friend send me the thing, feeling this peace inside of me that I didn’t really know where it came from. I was confused on the left hand side of me, I was headed for a train wreck. Too successful, too much drugs, too much everything, but I was having a great time. There was no buyer remorse, but I was really aware of the fact that I was headed for a train wreck.

I got taken to a speech by His Holiness in LA. I was with an actress, and because of that, we gotten taken backstage. That’s the Hollywood thing. When he walked in the room, I felt like I had taken the greatest shower of my life. I’ve never felt so clean, mentally, spiritually. I don’t know if I brought that to the night, or he created it in the night. But for whatever reason it happened, it just was, “Oh my God. This is like the cleanest I have ever felt. I gotta figure out how to get near this and figure out what it is ’cause I want to feel like this every minute. I don’t want it just to be when the guy walks in the room. That’s how I want to feel every second. Like clean from head to toe.”

When I got back to Hawaii, I saw on a bulletin board at Barnes and Noble, when we used to have bookstores, that he was coming to the big island for a teaching. In those days he wasn’t the Dalai Lama. A few hundred people would show up, not a 100,000. I sent a note to the person who was the contact for Hollywood saying that I had just started this journey in the culinary world, I had started managing some chefs, and I would love to show his Holiness the bounty that makes Hawaii so special, and make sure that when he got here he didn’t just get a hotel food, but that he really got to touch the people, and the farmers, and the growers. They accepted it.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow.

Shep Gordon:                       Which got me so nervous, it was unbelievable. But the way accepted it was really interesting. They didn’t ask me if I cook, nothing. They wouldn’t tell me what he ate. The only thing they said to me was, “You can’t have any expectations. If your expectation is that you’re gonna cook for him and meet him, don’t do the cooking. You cannot bring expectations,” which I thought was really interesting, great. I had my own kind of self-worth issues, so I was almost happy I wasn’t gonna meet him ’cause like, “What do I say? What do I do?”

A funny little story that I think really reflects on who he is, I did some research on Tibetan cuisine, which is very limited. What they have is yak, Y-A-K, and it’s a cross between, I think, a goat and cow. It’s a very skinny animal that lives high up in the hills in the mountains, which is where they are.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh.

Shep Gordon:                       I assumed that he was a vegetarian. It was an assumption I shouldn’t have made, but I assumed it. But in my culture, whenever anybody would come to my house, either here or in Hawaii or in LA I’d always have some chicken soup. I used my grandmother’s recipe, always my welcoming, you know, “Here’s something to warm your heart and bring you to the family.” I said, “What is there Tibetan culture? Yak.” The thing that they use is yak tea. You go to someone’s house, you have yak tea.

Dave Asprey:                          Right.

Shep Gordon:                       It’s illegal to bring yak butter into the country, but I got someone to smuggle it in. They brought it to my house. It smelled like every dirty sock in America was in my kitchen.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, it’s not good when it’s not fresh.

Shep Gordon:                       Oh my god. It was, ugh. But I made yak tea. The first morning I’d finish the meal, and his Holiness, his emissary, comes in and says, “Please bring him his breakfast.” I thought, “I’m going to bring him his breakfast? Oh my god.”

They covered my mouth in a little cloth so you don’t breathe on his food. I can remember walking up the steps, it was probably 30 steps up to where he was staying and then spoons were rattling, I was shaking so hard. I was so nervous. But I had my yak tea. I was thinking to myself, “Oh god, he’s gonna love this yak tea. I’m gonna be such a hero. I’m gonna be the coolest guy in the world.”

The door opens, and he’s brushing his teeth. He’s got his robe halfway down and brushing his teeth. He looks over with this beautiful smile, “Oh, breakfast?” and, “Yes your Holiness.” “Oh, put on table.” So I go to put it on the table and he goes (sniffs) and I say, “Oh my god, he’s smelling the yak tea. What a hero I am. I’m the coolest guy in the world.” And he goes (sniffs) “Oo yak tea?” And I said, “Oh yes, your Holiness.” He said, “Oh, that’s why I leave Tibet.”

I tell this story only because I’ve now had the privilege of being around him a number of times. Whenever he feels someone’s uncomfortable, whether it’s 10,000 people or one person, he makes some joke to show that he’s human. He gets rid of that fear in you. We went to Trinidad. In Trinidad, one of the things about Trinidad is everybody wears their original costume. African’s wear their tribal costume for ceremony. South Americans wear their Indian costume. We get to the airport, he’s meeting the elders of Trinidad. He walks into the room and it was like God walked in the room. You could hear a pin drop. Everybody was just, in awe that his Holiness was there. He walks up to the podium and he looks around, there’s all these beautiful people in beautiful costumes.

“Oh, so sorry. Must be in wrong room. This costume party?” Everybody doesn’t know exactly what to do. You could see their like, and then he looks down at himself in his robes and he said, “Oh, no. I’m in right room. I have my costume.” And that was it. From that point on he was just a human being talking to them.  I see him, he does it every single time. It’s really beautiful. He levels the playing field.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow. You have so many fascinating stories and things you’ve done that seem to … say a younger person listening to this right now, it just seems almost unimaginable that you could do this, even when you didn’t have the level of access in Hollywood that you might’ve had with the Dalai Lama. Tell me about what you did with Alice Cooper in the UK?

Shep Gordon:                       We had a lot of fun. Alice and I have been together 50 years. He says that we met on a lie. He told me he was a singer, I told him I was a manager. But, it’s been 50 years. Part of it was trying to figure out how to be successful. How are we gonna get successful? What are our strengths? What are weaknesses? What’s been the historical path to success in this field? Just like you would do, maybe, in Harvard Business School, except we weren’t, we were the other side of Harvard Business School.

Dave Asprey:                          I’ll say.

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah. But the things that became obvious to us was that nobody really liked the band. We had the ability to get people to hate us, really easily, which is a thing to put on your list. Then we started to say, okay, how does that translate into music? That’s our biggest strength. Alice played a show, I’d open the doors, and everybody left the room, 1500 people. Maybe 20 people left, and the ones that were coming on after. If you read the earlier reviews, Rolling Stone came to his show and said it was something Walt Disney had the good sense to leave in the can.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh god.

Shep Gordon:                       People would get angry, like truly angry. The music community, really angry. We had a time when we were on the top of a truck, having just had Hell’s Angels with the Grateful Dead destroy all our equipment and saying they were gonna kill us. Bill Graham threw him off the stage. Said, “Either you play rock and roll or you act, but you’re not doing both on my stage.” He cut their set off after 15 minutes and threw them off the stage.

What we were able to do is to get people to hate us. How does that translate into buying lunch, which is all we really cared about at the time? How do we buy lunch? What we saw was that hatred of parents was the key to every super star. Elvis Presley, Ed Sullivan couldn’t show his hips on TV, because it was so disgusting. The Beatles had long hair. The Rolling Stones urinated on their bathroom. Every one of us started to realize, “Wait a second, I remember my parents took the Bob Dylan record and broke it from my stereo.”

Everyone of us had a story about how our parents told us not to do something, which got us to do it even more. Our mantra was, “Okay. Let’s forget about the kids. How do we get parents to hate us?” We know how to get hate. Alice Cooper’s a pretty good name for a guy. There’s not too many parents in the ’60s that’s gonna accept a guy in a dress named Alice Cooper coming to their front door.

Eye makeup. It worked. In America, it really worked, and the songs led into it. “I’m 18. I don’t know if I’m a man, a boy …” We were number one in America and we booked a show in England. I knew nothing. I still … I knew nothing. I just assumed England’s sort of the same as America. We get there, I get there about 10 days early and we haven’t sold a lot of tickets. Nobody really cares and nobody really knows. I get taken into a guy named Derek Taylor’s office, who was called “The Fifth Beatle.” He was their publicist.

In the room is George Harrison, who’d just come back from India in his white robes. Harry Nilsson, and they were all getting really drunk. I sat there for hours. Then everybody left and he turned to me and he said, “Why are you here?” I said, “Well we’re on your label and the president of the company said maybe you could help me,” and I explain the problem.

He said, “Tell me about Alice Cooper.” I said, “The only thing you really have to know is that we want to get parents to hate him. How do we get to the parents? We don’t care about the kids. I have 10 days to get the parents, over a breakfast table, to say to their kids, ‘You’re not going to see that Alice Cooper Saturday night, are you? If you are, you’re grounded.’ That would be winning.” That was gigantic.

Dave Asprey:                          That is so brilliant.

Shep Gordon:                       We talked about what does every English parent … where do they get their information? Breakfast news, BBC Breakfast News was the big item. It was sort of like the Ed Sullivan show had been in America, or one of those shows where the family, in the morning, watches. I said, “What do they do on there?” He said, “Well, they do things like grain reports, weather, traffic.”  He said, “Traffic’s probably the biggest at the rush hour ’cause they have helicopters that go up and they show you how to get to work and do stuff.”

I said, “Where’s the most traffic?” It was Piccadilly Square. It’s this roundabout. We had just had a photo shoot with Alice, naked with a boa constrictor wrapped around his penis. It was a very famous photographer, Richard Avedon, who was probably in those days, the number one photographer. It had some art merit besides being this great job that we loved ’cause parents hated it. Here’s a naked guy with a …

So anyhow, that worked itself into putting that on a 40 foot semi-truck, that poster of Alice with the snake. Finding a truck driver who was willing to go to jail for money. We broke that down twice in the morning during the BBC rush hour. The helicopter, twice at Piccadilly, and the billboard said, “Alice Cooper playing Wembley Stadium.” We had girls in hot pants giving out flyers. The same policeman, they towed us away once. We came back in 15 minutes, broke it down at the exact same place. They towed … we got a 20 mile backup.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh god.

Shep Gordon:                       Luckily for us, two members of Parliament, the next day, put in legislation to ban us from coming to England. That hit the front page of the British papers, that they were trying to ban Alice Cooper, with the picture of him naked on the billboard. The show sold out in like one minute. Thank god. Interestingly enough, this November he’s playing Wembley again, same stadium.

Dave Asprey:                          You’re not going to be blocking any traffic this time?

Shep Gordon:                       No, no. You know, for us it doesn’t sort of work anymore. He’s out. He’s gone past that moment. But I think he-

Dave Asprey:                          Of course.

Shep Gordon:                       I can remember for me, walking past my kids’ room the first time I heard rap music. Opening the door, hearing lyrics that, to me, were offensive. I opened the door and go, “What is this crap you’re listening to?” And as I said it, I said, “Oh shit. This is the next … This is gonna be gigantic. If I’m telling them turn it off. Game. Set. Match.”

Dave Asprey:                          It was probably Run-DMC and Rick Rubin was working with them.

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah. It could’ve been. Definitely could have been.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh, so you didn’t quite turn into your parents breaking your Bob Dylan record, but you had the urge.

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah, yeah. That’s-

Dave Asprey:                          Good thing tapes were harder to break then.

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah, there were no more records. There was nothing to break.

Dave Asprey:                          I mean when you talk about these stories, you have hundreds of them like this. It just sort of seems to happen around you. You’ve actually talked, in your documentary, and in your book, which is called, “They call me Supermensch.” You go through some of these things, but you have this motto, which is, “Create history. Don’t wait for it to happen.”

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah. I was just going to say that.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh, okay. When did that become your motto?

Shep Gordon:                       I don’t know if it was every conscious, but it started early in my life. I always felt like the first day of my life was when I left home. For a lot of-

Dave Asprey:                          How old were you?

Shep Gordon:                       I was 18.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay.

Shep Gordon:                       My first year of college, but that always felt like the first year of my life, when my personality started to take over. I still don’t really plan anything out. But, we were in Buffalo. This is a two prong story. One part of it is maybe X-rated. But, I was in Buffalo. We were studying. In college, I used to take speed, stay up two days, three days to study.

Dave Asprey:                          I think they still do that.

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah, I don’t know. Probably do. But these were Black Beauties, Dexedrine. I remember they were called Black Beauties. Anyway, we were getting really silly and one of the things for biology test was the sex organ of a fern was the thallus of Marchantia. We started laughing and saying, “Wow, it sounds like the ruler of a country. Thallus of Marchantia.” One thing led to another and we sent a telegram from the UN, in New York, we had a friend go the UN, to the mayor of Buffalo saying the Thallus of Marchantia was coming to visit. He had relatives in Buffalo and they wanted it to be a royal visit.

We assumed nothing’s gonna ever happen. We wake up and it’s on the Buffalo evening news that the mayor’s gonna meet him at the airport. The whole top floor of the Statler Hilton is … so now we decide we gotta do it. So a guy named Arthur Cannor, who I think is passed away now, went to New York on a Bullhork airline, I remember it was, or Alligator Airline, with a couple of sheets and pillow cases. He comes back off the plane wearing the sheets and pillow cases. The mayor’s there, but unbeknownst to him, the night before we stayed up again. We couldn’t let it sit. We called the B’nai B’rith and we told him, “How could you let the Thallus of Marchantia come? He’s the most anti-sematic ruler in America.”

So now, 1000 people came out and picketed at the airport, Buffalo airport. Anyway, and actually, I gave a talk at a Jewish Center for my book last year. Four of the people had been holding placards at Buffalo Airport. Lived in Buffalo as kids, and actually came out from the Jewish Center, never knowing it was a hoax.

Dave Asprey:                          You just did this for just pure amusement.

Shep Gordon:                       Just for amusement. But then, two years later, I went to Mexico. I took my first psychedelic, which was-

Dave Asprey:                          Peyote or?

Shep Gordon:                       Peyote, yeah. Pure Peyote, in Mexico I had read that they used it for rheumatism. They put it in alcohol for a couple of months, and then rubbed it. So I went to an herb store and picked up a burlap bag of Peyote, and took it down to Acapulco. I never chewed it, ’cause it tasted horrible, but I would cut little pieces and take it with water. My first trip, there was a fire on the beach, and the fire went out. I said to myself, “I can make that fire come back, ’cause I can do anything. I’m part of this … I’m just one other piece.” It came back. Whether it did or it didn’t, I don’t know. But I remember leaving Mexico saying, “You know, I can do anything. “It’s really-

Dave Asprey:                          Is that still with you today?

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah. Yeah. You know, but what I tried to do then was use it for my business, in a practical way. So how that became practical to me was, instead of thinking about, “How am I gonna sell Alice tickets?” I thought about, “How am I gonna get … what do I want? I want a parent to open up a newspaper at the breakfast table, or see a TV thing, that’s gonna get them to talk about Al. Okay, how do I get that on TV? What’s gonna get on that TV? They do traffic reports. Let me fuck up the traffic, and then I get on TV.”

I always used to tell my clients, “My job is to get a head a year and figure out where you go on the highway. Let me …” you know, with Teddy Pendergrass, I was trying to tell the world he was black Elvis. How do you tell the world someone is black Elvis without being arrogant? I got ahead and I said, “Well, if he was really Elvis Presley, what would be like the most amazing thing? If he gave a concert and only women bought tickets, the men were completely shut out and screaming and yelling when his hips go.” So I went to Teddy and say, “Let’s do a concert for women only. Let’s be able to tell the story that you did a concert and 5000 women showed up for your concert. We can’t say you’re black Elvis, but we can let the journalists, when they look at the audience, I can feed them the line black Elvis.”

We made it fun. We did a chocolate teddy bear lollipop. I kept thinking, here’s these women that they just want to grab him and rape him. How do I manifest that for them all? That’s what it was. It’s all those little nuances. I started to think about the ad. I thought about someone opening up the newspaper, seeing “For women only,” how arrogant that could sound. I don’t want them to see that. What do I want them to see? I want them to hug him and hold him. How do I do that?

We ended up doing … The ad was a full-page picture of a stuffed teddy bear, with a little note on its collar that said, “Come spend the night with me. Love, Teddy.” So it was really soft, sweet, wasn’t threatening. It wasn’t this macho guy saying … but anyway. I think that’s a long answer for a short question, but that’s sort of my method.

Dave Asprey:                          How often did you use hallucinogens when you were using drugs a lot?

Shep Gordon:                       I was an abuser.

Dave Asprey:                          In the use of hallucinogens or just on drugs in general?

Shep Gordon:                       I would say hallucinogens was … when I say an abuser, I don’t mean because I did a lot. But, I say it because I wasn’t getting the enjoyment out of it and continued doing it. I took a trip every day for a couple of years. I would say the second year, there was no difference between taking it or not taking it. It didn’t get me high.

Dave Asprey:                          In a lot of Shamanic, very traditional practices, they take it every day until it doesn’t have an effect, because then they say they’re walking with one foot in the spirit world and one foot in the real world all the time. Maybe you accidentally did that?

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          You think that’s possible?

Shep Gordon:                       I think it’s possible, yeah. I know that … I don’t want to say this in an arrogant way, but the things that I enjoyed … what I really enjoyed about psychedelics is it was able for me to see the world in a different way. Whether it’s a true way or not a true way is beyond me to judge. But I was able to see the world in a way that compassion made sense. The things that I sort of believed in made sense. Maybe it was self-serving, not self-serving, I don’t know. But it worked for me. I got to a place where I felt good about myself and good about my actions and my motivations.

That sort of stayed with me. I’m almost scared now, I’ve been offered many times now, to do psychedelics. I tend to steer away. I almost have a fear that I’ve hit a balance for me in my life that I’m really comfortable with. I don’t know if right or wrong, or truth or not truth, I don’t know how you get to those big things, but I sort of like who I am now, and don’t wanna mess with it.

Dave Asprey:                          I can respect that very much. I was at a dinner in New York, literally, a couple days ago. I was there to speak at the Tony Robbins event. A friend said, “I put together a dinner.” I didn’t know it was going to be a dinner with some really interesting, but very powerful, influential people. I just asked a question of about 25 people, “How many of you have used hallucinogens at least once?” ‘Cause we were talking about, in the context of therapy. You know what? Almost every single hand went up. These are people you wouldn’t necessarily expect would have used it.

Probably none of them were abusers. Some of them had done 25 Ayahuasca ceremonies. A lot of them had just been a couple times, but, for me, it was the same sort of thing. I did an Ayahuasca with a Shaman in Peru about 20 years ago, before it was cool, right? But just the ability to see the world from a different angle, I think, influenced me as well, and in a positive way.

Shep Gordon:                       Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dave Asprey:                          There are people, and I’m sure you saw them, who didn’t do well when they used a lot any kind of drug, including the psychedelics.

Shep Gordon:                       I’ve had some friends who moved to a ledge that they probably wouldn’t like to be on.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, and I think their experiencing a Renaissance right now. I hope it’s for the good. But, do you think that’s a good thing for the world?

Shep Gordon:                       I don’t really, I don’t feel qualified to make a decision. I think that I don’t know enough about this micro thing that I’ve heard about adjacent thing really for the first time. I’ve now seen more and more places. I’m curious about Ayahuasca. I had, yesterday, an amazing guy at the house, Chef Alex Atala, he’s got the number nine restaurant in the world in São Paulo, who offered to take me in. He forages his stuff in the Amazon. If you get a chance, he’s on Chef’s Table.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay.

Shep Gordon:                       It’s a remarkable piece. He attributes everything in his life to his first acid trip. Made him see the circle of life, which made him wanna cook and wanna do the things that he does. Really beautiful thing. I’m gonna be there in September. He offered to take me into the jungle to his Shaman. That was my mediation this morning in the jacuzzi at my … “Do I want to mess with who I’ve become? Do I even want to see if I’m not right in my comfortableness?” I’m 71, I’m sort of happy.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh, your nervous system knows the right answer. You seem like the kind of guy who’s plugged in intuitively to know what the right thing to do is, ’cause-

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah, yeah. So I’m meditating on it, yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Good. Good. Maybe, I’m going to be spending some time in Hawaii. I know we’re planning to hook up.

Shep Gordon:                       Oh it’d be great.

Dave Asprey:                          Maybe confidentially you can share the story with me if you feel somewhat motivated. I’m certainly curious. Let’s go back to what it was like when you were going, ’cause there are a lot of people listening who really weren’t around in the ’70s. I was born in ’72. So I was around, but I don’t have much solid memory of the ’70s other than a few bell bottoms here and there. What’s the difference between Hollywood in the ’70s, and Hollywood of today?

Shep Gordon:                       I think the two biggest differences, probably, AIDS, consciousness of AIDS changed the social pattern of Hollywood completely. I would say the second thing is, in the ’60s, there was no real awareness of consequences, and in the early ’70s. Starting in the late ’70s, we started to realize consequences. Everyone around us was dying. Janis, Jimi, Morrison. We didn’t think about consequences, you just got as fucked up as you could possibly get every night. Then you woke up, so there were no consequences in your sexual approach to life, there were no real consequences in your drug approach to life, that we knew, or thought about. So it was a whole different landscape, ’cause sex and drugs are what Hollywood thrives on, for the most part.

Dave Asprey:                          It seems like it still does, to some extent.

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah, it does, but with consequences, and with AIDS.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay.

Shep Gordon:                       So it’s very, very different.

Dave Asprey:                          More caution, more fear.

Shep Gordon:                       It’s just now the AIDS thing is sort of over, but there was a moment in the early ’80s probably it was, and into the ’90s where that was everything. That took over everything. I was a nightclub owner. The difference in the interactions in the nightclubs, were just amazing. Someone would go from being admired for having a conquest of many beautiful women or men, to being almost hated for it. Promiscuity went from a gold medal on your chest to a mark of someone who didn’t give a shit.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow. I came of age right at that time where it was all about AIDS in high school and all. I remember regretting, going, “Man, if I’d have been grown up 10 years earlier, I’d be able to get a date.”

Shep Gordon:                       Oh my god, it was so wild. Yeah, it was so wild. Free love really was free love.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow. I can’t imagine having that, lived it.

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          One more of your stories. Why did Janis Joplin punch you in the face?

Shep Gordon:                       I moved to California as a probation officer. I got a job in Los Padrinos Juvenile Hall and I was … Anthony Bourdain puts it in a very nice way. He said I was a pharmaceutical salesman. I had hair almost down to my waist. I was high on acid every day. I’d show up at Los Padrinos Juvenile Hall, during the Reagan era, as a probation officer, thinking that I’m going to save these kids. I sort of have an image of myself on a white horse, galloping into the prison, “Here I am guys. You’re gonna be okay now.” The system was much bigger than me, and my innocence was definitely much bigger than reality. It wasn’t a good experience. I resigned that night.

As I remember, it was about an hour from LA. I drove into LA, I had maybe $600 and a couple of thousand hits of acid, which took like a pinhead. It was nothing. I remember the drive. I got off the freeway, went down Highland Boulevard, got trapped in the right hand lane, so I had to make a right down Franklin Avenue. There was a motel sign, said, “Vacancy”, right next to the Magic Castle. I pulled into the driveway and I think it was $18 a night, which meant I could stay a couple of weeks and figure out what I was gonna do. Checked into room 224, up in the corner. Took some acid, which is what I did, and thinking about how fucked my life is, that I couldn’t even make a probation department job work. What am I gonna do with my life?

Heard a girl screaming down at … it was one of those Hotel California hotels, two stories, open at one end around a swimming pool. I could see, sort of, these shadows by the pool. I heard a girl scream. I’d just come from a jail. I’m pretty high, and I’m on my white horse. I take the horse down and separate the two people, thinking I’m saving the girl, and they were making love.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh!

Shep Gordon:                       She punched me.

Dave Asprey:                          You were really high then.

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah, I was really high. She punched me. When I went down to the pool in the morning, the girl was Janis Joplin. I don’t believe, she was with Jimi Hendrix the night before, but that morning, she was sitting with Jimi Hendrix. I didn’t see the guy, so I didn’t have no idea. I didn’t see her, either. It was dark.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow.

Shep Gordon:                       It turned out to be this rock and roll lunatic bin. It was The Chambers Brothers, Paul Rothchild, who produced The Doors, Jim Morrison was always there. One of the gang leaders was Arthur Lee from a group called Love. He was sort of the one they all looked to musically. Jim Hen- I mean, they were all there. My first thought was embarrassment. Then I went, “Holy shit. This is the best customer base in the world. I have walked into …” so I became the salesman with my goods. This is like the greatest if you’re an acid salesman, the guy you want to see is Jimi Hendrix in front of you.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah.

Shep Gordon:                       So that started my journey. It was about two or three months into it when, in a very concerned moment, Jimi and The Chambers Brothers sat me down and said, “Do you have a real job?” I said, “No.” They said, “Yeah we know. We see you at hotel all the time. What are you gonna do if the police come and ask you where did you get the money for rent? You gonna tell them you sell acid?” And I said, “No.” They said, “You need a front. You need to have something you could say.” Where I came from, the police didn’t ask you anything. But where they came from, if you had a new watch, you’d better be able to tell the cop on the beat … Jimi said to me, “You Jewish?” I said, “Yeah.” He said, “You should be a manager.”

Dave Asprey:                          Oh god.

Shep Gordon:                       Alice was living in Lester Chambers basement. They went over to see Alice. Alice tells the story that Lester came in and said, “We found a Jew that will manage you. That’s the only way to make it in Hollywood.” They all came over to the hotel and we shook hands, and it’s been 49 years, 50 years later.

Dave Asprey:                          And you’ve been a manager ever since?

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow, and you just happened to end up at that hotel through some sort of alignment of whatever. It’s an amazing story.

Shep Gordon:                       I think for most of us, I think most of us in our lives, grabbing chance is a big part of the success.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah.

Shep Gordon:                       I think we all get to go on a merry-go-round as grabbing the ring.

Dave Asprey:                          There’s times in my life where I can see something big and it hurts to not grab it.

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          I feel like, almost a little bit of pain if I don’t go do it and it tends to be something that disrupts a big industry that needed it. Maybe you felt some sort of pull, or maybe you didn’t?

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah, no. I never really … my work is completely disassociated from my life.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow.

Shep Gordon:                       Not the culinary side. The culinary side is my passion and very connected to my life. But the music and the films side, all that stuff that I did had … I think it’s part of what made me effective was that I was not emotionally attached to it at all. I don’t listen. It’s funny you say Rick Rubin, ’cause he came here about maybe a year and a half ago. We knew each other when he first started Def Jam. I counseled Russel and Lyor, so I got to meet him. Russel would come to the house a lot and I would sort of mentor them a little bit.

Lyor’s an Israeli kid who stayed in my house with his parents, but I never really got to know Rick. When the documentary came out, Rick emailed me and said, “I’d really like to spend some time with ya. When are you gonna be in Hawaii?” He has a place in Kauai.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah.

Shep Gordon:                       So he came over, we had a beautiful time. I go to meet his wife who’s just sensational.

Dave Asprey:                          Yes.

Shep Gordon:                       And really got a deep appreciation for him. At the end of it he said to me, “I’d like you to play in this new thing I’ve been working on.” I said, “I’d love to hear it, but we’ll have to go in my car because I don’t have any stereo at the house.”

Dave Asprey:                          Oh no.

Shep Gordon:                       He said, “You’re kidding.” I said, “No, I probably haven’t had one in 25 years.” He went out and bought me Sonos through all of my houses, my guesthouse, my office.

Dave Asprey:                          His place is all wired up with Sonos too.

Shep Gordon:                       Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          I’ve got some here as well. It’s a cool thing.

Shep Gordon:                       I love Sonos. I love it.

Dave Asprey:                          That’s sounds a lot like Rick. A generous guy and so deeply connected to music and how it moves people. It’s funny that you’ve worked in music for so long, but I guess in 25 years you’ve been more on culinary and also philanthropy. I know we’ve got about 10 minutes left before you’ve got to run to the airport, so let’s spend about five minutes talking about why you went into philanthropy. What motivates you to do it, like what’s important?

Shep Gordon:                       As a Jew, first of all, it’s really an important part of our culture. As much as maybe the image of [inaudible 00:53:29]. It’s always to be at … I felt that tug very strongly. Having our people persecuted the way they were, always made me feel that philanthropy is an important part of my life and I feel so lucky to be here. The sacrifice people gave. I wouldn’t say I ever sat done and said I’m going to be philanthropic. It’s just opportunities came up. I think now I’m probably more focused than I’ve ever been, and it’s on hunger. I feel in some way that I’ve helped to empower a generation of artists to really get economic reward, get the kind of respect they deserve.

I think I helped to make the culinary arts a real art form. I gave the graduation speech at the CIA last year. I said, you know, we all sacrificed a lot, so you guys could be stars and make the money you’re making. We didn’t do it just to cook dinners for people who can afford $100 meals. That’s not what this is about. That’s a beautiful part of life, but when you walk out of your restaurant that got two Michelin stars, because you were able to walk over the backs of all of us, and we were happy to let you. Back to the left are starving people and to the right are starving people, they’re your neighbors. Our obligation is to make sure there’s nobody starving.

That’s the job. Not to make $100 dinners. That’s a nice perk. I’ve spent the last few years of my life, and spending more and more, trying to instill that thought into the people who are feeding people. That it’s just not about feeding rich people. I think it’s the first time in my life that I have a credible platform to speak from. I think they listen to me. In the culinary world, I think I’m able to maybe affect them, so I want to use that little bit of power that I may have to try and stop it. Here on Maui, we fed 1.2 million meals through a new year’s benefit, which basically eliminates hunger on the island. We’re a great microcosm  of some artists donating one half hour of their lives.

It’s great artists, it’s Steve Tyler, Alice Cooper, they’ve all done it for 10 years now. They donate, we have a great time New Year’s Eve, and we actually feed an island. That’s a model that is so easy to transpose in every city. It’s just a matter of focus. I don’t think of myself as a philanthropist, but I feel like I owe it to the planet who have given us all so much. You know, it’s just crazy that people are hungry. If you’re hungry, as I told all my chefs when I talked to them, I say, “The most selfish thing you can do in the world is stop hunger, ’cause those hungry people, they’re going to rob your house, they’re going to hurt you, they’re going to hurt your kids, they’re going to steal your car, so even if you don’t want to help them, do it to be completely selfish for the betterment of you and your family.” It’s a win-win on every level. In my waning years, I hope I can have some affect.

Dave Asprey:                          It sounds like you already have. Well, I have a final question for you and I’m really curious how you’re going to answer it. Given you’ve led this amazing life across multiple disciplines and you’ve learned so much and experienced more than the average person probably ever will. If someone came to you, say as a young person, and said, “Look, I want to kick more ass at life. I want to be a better human being, I want to be better at everything I do. What are the three most important things I need to know?” What would you share with them?

Shep Gordon:                       Well that’s a tough question. I would say find a way to hear yourself. Joseph Campbell, I think, talked about it as well as anyone. I sort of picked up a lot from Joseph Campbell when he talked about find the quiet space. Go into a quiet space for 20 minutes. It may be boring for a while, but eventually you’ll hear yourself. I think that’s finding some way to hear yourself.

Finding some simple technique to keep you thankful. For me it’s really saying thank you. There are morning I wake up when I just feel fucked, but the first thing I do is, I get out on the beach and “Thank you,” put my hands together, “Wow, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.” I sort of move from fucked to thank you. It’s really simple. To me it’s so obvious, but it works for me. I would say hear yourself, be thankful and try and have good thoughts.

I think if you have those three things together, and you can control your thoughts. Every time you catch yourself; jealousy, greed, anger, just catch the thought and figure out some way for yourself to move it to somewhere else. I always say, “Don’t get mad. Use that anger to accomplish what you want to accomplish, what you’re angry about.” But, I also … the fourth one is, don’t listen to anybody.

Dave Asprey:                          There’s that Buddhist theme coming up again. Well said. On that note Shep, it’s a real honor to have you on Bulletproof Radio and to be able to share your stories and your wisdom. Thanks for taking the time to do this with me.

Shep Gordon:                       Thank you for having me. I’m a fan, so thank you.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s a great honor. I know you’ve got to go to the airport, so I’m going to let you go, make you two minutes early so you can make it. Don’t rush. Have a safe trip and thanks again.

Shep Gordon:                       Thank you. Aloha.



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Ketone Esters Vs. Ketone Salts & More With Geoffrey Woo of H.V.M.N.


It’s time for a serious geek out on all things ketones, ketosis, ketone esters, and more!

My guest on today’s show, Geoffrey Woo, is co-founder and CEO of H.V.M.N. – Health Via Modern Nutrition. He is also the host of the Health Via Modern Nutrition Podcast, a health & performance podcast that recently broke 4 million downloads. H.V.M.N. helped popularize ketones as a food group beyond fats, proteins, and carbohydrates and makes foods & supplements for metabolic performance and health—fueling some of the world’s top performers, athletes, and military service members.

Geoff is an avid self-experimenter who like to do 7-day water fasts, has inspired thousands under the COVID-19 lockdown to push themselves with positive challenges by completing the Crossfit Murph workout for 45 days in a row, and studies the optimization of human performance—at the individual scale, the team scale, the organization scale, and at the civilizational scale. He holds a BS with honors and distinction in computer science from Stanford University.

During this discussion, you’ll discover:

-How Geoffrey used ketone esters while doing a Crossfit “Murph” for 45 consecutive days…5:45

  • Named after Michael Murphy, a Navy SEAL killed in Afghanistan
  • Consists of a 1-mile run, 100 pullups, 200 pushups, 300 squats, then another mile run
  • Staying with a routine when COVID-19 became a serious issue
  • Low carb diet overall
  • Need for muscle and liver glycogen repletion
  • Added carbs to the diet, as well as ketone esters and exogenous ketones
  • Used ketones more for recovery than for performance

-Why ketogenesis is not a physiologically typical state…13:00

-The role ketones play when it comes to recovery…16:15

  • Research thus far has been focused on acute performance benefits
  • Trials performed on runners and cyclists; much easier to quantify than other sports
  • Tour de France cyclists reported exogenous ketones were better for recovery than for pre-race fuel
  • 2019 study on mimicking Tour de France training regimen with ketone esters
  • Ketones plus carbs and protein upregulates mTORC1
  • Anti-catabolic effects are consistent from an evolutionary perspective
  • Ketogenic diet inhibits mTOR
  • If you want to use a ketogenic state for recovery:
    • Have adequate nutrient availability, caloric intake, and carbs (allows liver and muscle glycogen levels to be full)
    • Include ketone esters with regular meals (induces anabolic pathway not present without ketone esters)
  • To trigger autophagy, decrease mTOR, and enhance fasting:
    • Use nutritional ketosis and/or ketone esters
    • Lower amount of carb intake and calorie availability
  • Open question of inquiry: Is β-hydroxybutyrate (BHB) itself the signaling molecule that triggers HDAC inhibition, FOXO3, other longevity pathways, or is it the caloric restriction itself?

-Pros and cons of endogenous and exogenous ketosis…24:18

  • What’s happening physiologically:
    • Endogenous includes carb restriction by default (not necessarily calorie restriction)
    • The brain senses lower AMPK due to a lack of glucose
    • Increases lipolysis and fat mobilization
    • Blood-brain barrier prevents fat from entering to provide substrate for neurons
    • Increase in free fatty acids
    • Fat burning lipolysis
  • Exogenous ketosis: eating calories in the form of ketones
  • Exogenous ketones will elevate BHB aggressively
  • Inhibit lipolysis (fat burning) and free fatty acids go down
  • Ketones can be used a metabolic fuel as well as a signaling metabolite
  • Ketones mediate ghrelin (the appetite hormone) which signals satiety

-The difference between ketone esters and salts…35:15

  • Ketone salt: BHB bound to a mineral (a salt)
  • Pros and cons of salts:
    • Cheap and available
    • Often too much mineral in a ketone salt product
  • Ketone esters: Organic molecule that has an oxygen double bond between different components (monoesters and diesters)
  • Future research will reveal a “family” of esters, similar to carbohydrates, fats, etc.
  • H.V.M.N. focuses on a monoester: BHB esterified with R1,3-butanediol
  • This ketone ester delivers 100% of BHB vs. ~50% with ketone salts
  • Another ketone ester is acetoacetate diester, that Dom D’Agostino has worked on.

-The ketone esters developed by the DARPA program…38:45

  • Beginning in the 1960s, various studies conducted to determine the efficacy of ketones
    • Fasting study at Harvard by George Cahill – studies on starvation
    • Dr. Richard Veech, one of the earliest researchers of ketones and understanding the metabolic implications of ketones
    • At the start, a lot of people thought of ketones as metabolic waste products for type 1 diabetics, did not realize the broader implications as a fuel substrate as well as a signaling metabolite
  • Early 2000s, DARPA program headed by Dr. Joseph Bielitzki initiates project to determine the human factor in fighting wars
  • Quercetin, cooling glove out of Stanford and ketone esters were part of the program
  • DeltaG is the code name for a ketone monoester developed in the program
  • Last 4-5 years, performance-enhancing aspects of ketones have been studied as part of the program
  • Geoffrey’s podcast with Dr. Joseph Bielitzki of the DARPA program

-Gold standard usage for dosage and frequency of ketone esters…44:45

  • Dosage is based on body weight
  • High amounts needed for pre-exercise (for Tour de France cyclists)
  • Aim for a threshold of BHB in the blood
  • Body becomes more efficient when more adapted to ketones
  • Blood BHB is the most important variable—dependent on body weight, metabolism, and keto adaptability
  • Ketones uses:
    • Cognitive use (military and sports decision making)
    • Used prior to and after fasting
    • Transition to ketogenic diet minus the “keto flu”
  • Blood is the best way to measure ketone levels
  • You don’t excrete as many ketones when you become keto-adapted

-Whether or not ketones break a fast…53:35

  • What is the purpose of the fast
  • Which metabolic pathways do we care about
  • Ketones are mildly insulinogenic at best
  • They do not upregulate the mTOR pathway (only happens when stacked with carbs and protein)
  • Ketosis shifts NAD+ and NADH ratio to enhance sirtuin activation

-How a process called lactylation enhances the expression of longevity genes…57:11

  • BHB binds histones through process called β-hydroxybutyrylation
  • Same thing happens with lactate
  • “Biology is a study of snapshots”
  • Lactic acid builds up during exercise
  • Lactate crosses the blood-brain barrier
  • Possible use in treating TBI, concussions, etc.

-Parallels between lactate and ketones…1:02:15

  • Not insulin-mediated; substrates for metabolic health
  • Cognitive and TBI repair
    • No glucose can be utilized by the brain after a concussion or TBI
  • Potential for use treating Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, etc.
  • HBOT chamber (use code BEN to save $500)
  • Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is the best way to buffer lactate

-Stacking sodium bicarbonate with ketone esters pre-workout…1:07:15

  • Water, tip of teaspoon (microdosing) leading to the workout helps with potential diarrhea
  • Lactigo transdermal carnosine applications (use code BEN to save 20%)

-Ketones used in place of alcohol in cocktails…1:10:15

  • 1,3-butanediol can give the buzz minus the toxicity of alcohol
  • Anti-anxiety effect demonstrated in animal models
  • Butanediols combined with alcohol is highly discouraged
  • Minimal sleep disruptions with use of ketones rather than alcohol
  • CBD and ketone combinations

-And much more…

Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.

Resources from this episode:

– Geoffrey Woo:

– BGF podcasts and articles on ketones and ketosis:

– Gear and supplements:

– Other resources:

Episode sponsors:

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Do you have questions, thoughts, or feedback for Geoffrey or me? Leave your comments below, and one of us will reply!

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The Real Dangers of Electronic Devices and EMFs – Dr. Joseph Mercola


Why you should listen –

Natural medicine pioneer Dr. Joseph Mercola has been looking out for the nation’s health for decades via his in-depth research, New York Times best-selling books, and his robust website. Now, Dr. Mercola, author of “Fat for Fuel”, is on a mission to inform us all about the dangers of EMFs (electromagnetic fields), areas of energy that surround our electronic devices. From microwave ovens, to our Wi-Fi routers, to our smart phones and tablets, we are surrounded by EMFs and constantly bombarded by their energy. How is this continuous exposure to EMFs really impacting us, and what can we do to minimize the damage? In this eye-opening discussion, Dr. Mercola explains just how many of our modern-day devices give off EMFs, how this energy impacts our bodies, and what we can do in our lives, in our homes, and when we travel to mitigate the harm.

Enjoy the show!

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Follow Along with the Transcript!

Click here to download a PDF of this transcript

*See full transcript below Show Notes section

Show Notes

*Visit Dr. Joseph Mercola’s website: Mercola.com

  • Cool Fact of the Day: How cocoons are helping to innovate new ways to take medications
  • Squatty Potty: Get your butt over to their website and receive a 20% discount by going to squattypotty.com/bulletproof. *When you add any item to the cart, your 20% discount will be applied in the cart before you check out!
  • Check out Bulletproof’s Forbose supplement to help keep you energized
  • Dave introduces Joseph Mercola, pioneer of natural medicine and best-selling author of “Fat for Fuel”
  • Why Dave and Dr. Mercola are all about energy and mitochondrial function
  • EMFs (electromagnetic fields) are areas of energy that surround electronic devices; what’s the harm, really?
  • Dr. Mercola will be presenting at the Bulletproof Conference, Oct 13-15, 2017
  • Dr. Mercola loves Fat Water!
  • Why you should get rid of your microwave oven right now
  • Why Dr. Mercola only talks on speaker phone – and why he likes using a Selfie Stick!
  • Mercola suggests listening to a Dr. Martin Pall lecture on EMFs, discusses some of his research
  • What VGCCs (voltage gated calcium channels) are, and how EMFs impact them
  • Why you don’t want to hold your cell phone near head, your vital organs or your skin
  • What you can do to lower your exposure to EMFs and remediate the damage they can cause
  • Going back to ethernet cables…
  • How EMF impacts your sleep, and what Dr. Mercola suggests to improve it
  • The TES-593 EMF ElectroSmog Tester/Meter
  • Nutritional interventions for blocking EMFs, which supplements to take
  • Tyler LaBaron and the Molecular Hydrogen Foundation
  • Why you actually need some free radicals, how molecular hydrogen impacts them, and why it’s great for frequent travelers
  • Other things we can do to lower the impact of EMFs + smart meters
  • Mercola’s important piece of advice + he suggests David Hawkin’s book, “Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender”
  • Check out Dr. Mercola’s book, “Fat for Fuel”
  • If you liked this episode, pick up “Headstrong” on Amazon and leave a review!


Full Transcript

Speaker 1:                               Bulletproof Radio. A stage of high performance.

Dave Asprey:                          You’re listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today’s cool fact of the day is that food scientists and pharmaceutical scientists have put together something interesting. They looked at what silk worms do when they make cocoons, and they figured out that they can do on a microscopic level these nano cocoons, basically of something called nanofibrils. They can use these to package drugs, or potentially even things like nutraceuticals, into a new delivery system.

As you know, it’s not necessarily about whether you put something in your mouth, it’s about whether your body absorbs it, so kind of cool. It’s given us some ideas for new Bulletproof supplements, but more importantly, this is going to change a lot of things, because right now, if you have to inject something, you’re probably never going to do it, but if you can get it orally, it opens up a whole new realm of biohacking for you, so kind of a cool fact of the day. Before we get into today’s show, I want to talk about a supplement that came about directly as a result of my work in Headstrong. It’s called Forbose.

Forbose is a new way of helping your body recycle ATP. You might know, if you listen to one of these episodes, that ATP is the main energy molecule that your body uses. You take food and air and you make energy using ATP. The problem is that if that process fails a little bit, you make something called AMP, which is very hard for your body to manufacture, but then you have to pee out your AMP. When you take Forbose, it has ingredients in it, these are natural herbs and a natural type of sugar that doesn’t raise your blood sugar, and that combination can actually help your body rescue this expensive molecule so you can put it back into production to keep your batteries charged, which is a cool hack.

It’s something that I do every single day, and especially when I’m going to travel or exercise. It’s called Forbose, and it’s one of the many ways that you can go about upgrading your mitochondrial function. That’s a cool hack, and if you haven’t tried it, you didn’t catch that section in Headstrong, that’s okay. Bulletproof.com, Forbose.

All right. Today’s episode is going to be fantastic, and it’s something that I’m really pleased to be able to do. Not only am I interviewing the one and only Dr. Mercola, but we’re doing it live in the studio here on Vancouver Island.

Dr. Mercola:                          [crosstalk]

Dave Asprey:                          Dr. Mercola, thanks for coming up to the island.

Dr. Mercola:                          Well, it’s a great privilege and honor to see your Bulletproof lab.

Dave Asprey:                          I was pretty amazed when I found out you were going to be in the area and have a chance to come by. You may remember, Dr. Mercola’s been on Bulletproof Radio before, but if you maybe don’t have an internet account, you might not have seen him, but over the last 20 years, Dr. Mercola has become the number one online source for health information, in terms of traffic and just in terms of impact. For 20 years, he’s been pioneering for things like vitamin D, the effect of sunlight on health, vitamins, nutrition, the importance of grass-fed things, the importance of eating your vegetables, and interviewing some of the world’s top people. I’ve learned a lot from him, and he’s here in the studio with us.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, also exposing corporate corruption, which is responsible for the misinformation and massive misinformation that confuses people and causes them to make the wrong choices.

Dave Asprey:                          In fact, you are one of the leading voices in the anti-glyphosate community, and I’m right there with you. We’ve got to stop spraying poison on our soils. Your site has been really instrumental because you’ve published the original research, like, “Hey, here’s who’s paying for what, here’s what’s going on,” so to have been out there fighting the good fight for 20 years has taught you a thing or two, and I think Bulletproof Radio listeners are going to learn a lot in this interview.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yes, indeed.

Dave Asprey:                          The other thing is you just published an amazing book about fact, called Fat for Fuel, and this came out about the same time as Headstrong. You and I are so in alignment that I’ll tell you, if you liked Headstrong and you haven’t read Dr. Mercola’s book from his last interview, you really need to pick up Fat for Fuel. There’s a lot of good information in there. It’s not the same as what’s in Headstrong, but it’s all complimentary.

We both see the world with the same basic principles, different lenses. I learned stuff from reading this book, and you will too. It’s Fat for Fuel.

Dr. Mercola:                          Thank you.

Dave Asprey:                          All right. Let’s see. There’s so many things that I could say about you. Three New York Times Best Sellers and effortless humor.

Dr. Mercola:                          Should’ve been four.

Dave Asprey:                          Let’s talk about that. I think you sold more copies of Fat for Fuel than I did of Headstrong.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, we were the number one nonfiction book sold in the last week of May-

Dave Asprey:                          Wow.

Dr. Mercola:                          … on USA Today and Wall Street Journal.

Dave Asprey:                          You didn’t hit the New York Times Best Seller?

Dr. Mercola:                          We didn’t not just hit the list, we [inaudible] the top 15. They excluded us.

Dave Asprey:                          That’s so weird.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. Supposedly we sold too many books through Amazon, which is really hard to understand, but that’s what they-

Dave Asprey:                          You wanted to sell books through Amazon.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. Go figure.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s kind of random.

Dr. Mercola:                          It’s okay. It is what it is. The book got out there, we sold a lot of copies, and we’re just excited to give people the basic foundation information that they can use to change your health, because we know it’s all about fueling the mitochondria.

Dave Asprey:                          It is. When you peel away the onion, we say, “Oh, it’s neurotransmitters, or it’s this, or it’s dieting,” or whatever, it all boils down to energy.

Dr. Mercola:                          It does, and that’s what I love about your work, is that you recognize it’s not just food, because I just came back from a low carb conference and everyone there is just food, food, food. I talked in an hour presentation, I talked about five minutes about food and 55 minutes about the other biohacks you can use to improve mitochondria function.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah. You can suck food into yourselves and turn it into energy instead of fat better if you do these other environmental variables.

Dr. Mercola:                          Absolutely. Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          The reason that I wanted to do a second interview with you was because I want to talk about that. Rather than talking about the [vio ketosis] where we’re both in alignment with that, but I want to talk specifically about electromagnetic frequencies. You’ve also been one of the leading voices going back a long time saying this is where [crosstalk].

Dr. Mercola:                          At least exposing it, but not into the depth that I’m going to be. I think that’s my next book.

Dave Asprey:                          Nice.

Dr. Mercola:                          I’m pretty confident of that, and it’s going to take a year. I really want to do a good job with it, is have it peer-reviewed. I’ll find it and identify the leading researchers in the world who understand the truth and are not corrupted by the industry, and then convert that information into language as you see it, and understand and doable and practical recommendations.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah. It’s really important because there are so many people who say, “Well, if it doesn’t cook your tissues, then nothing happens,” which, frankly, isn’t a very scientific thing to say. You could say we don’t know what happens if we’re not cooking your tissues, but maybe there’s something because there appears to be evidence. In fact, there’s overwhelming evidence of harm, it’s just not short-term harm, it’s long-term harm, right?

Dr. Mercola:                          Well, sometimes it can be short.

Dave Asprey:                          There’s short-term?

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Fair point

Dr. Mercola:                          Absolutely, yes. Depending on your condition, clearly can be short-term.

Dave Asprey:                          You’ve been looking at EMF’s, I’ve been looking at EMF’s. You’ve brought your EMF meter up here. We’ve been playing around, before recording the show, and unfortunately, we didn’t record how much EMF was coming off all the studio gear here, but hopefully not too bad because everything is wired by design, which I think is most-

Dr. Mercola:                          It really is a solution, or a big part of the solution, is to wire it. Wire yourself and stop the Wi-Fi. That’s just probably, in reality, the single most significant exposure people have, other than their cell phone. I mean, this is going to be remembered in the future as similar to someone who’s chain-smoking. I mean, the damage is probably worse from this than chain-smoking.

Dave Asprey:                          Holding a phone up to your head is just not a good idea.

Dr. Mercola:                          It’s not even recommended by the manufacturers. Every manufacture says hold it at least an inch or two away, which is far too close still, but at least even they admit that. No one recommends you should hold it to your head.

Dave Asprey:                          Unless it’s in a virtual reality googles you glue to your face.

Dr. Mercola:                          That’s true.

Dave Asprey:                          That’s a little scary.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          I will admit, I do have an Oculus Rift.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, so do I.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh, do you?

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay. You get the-

Dr. Mercola:                          I haven’t used it. I’ve had it for a year and I still haven’t used it. I haven’t had to free time to use it.

Dave Asprey:                          It took me six months to use mine because of lack of free time. Elliot, fortunately, ordered the machine and I did play it four times. It does have too much blue light. I did manage to fit my true dark glasses underneath it, as I was looking particularly dumb, but playing a 3D space game when you can’t see certain blue colors, the aliens handed my ass to me, but man, it was fun. Dr. Mercola, you got to try it.

Dr. Mercola:                          Oh, I know. I’ve used the gear, a sense the Galaxy Gear, which is similar, but I-

Dave Asprey:                          It’s not wired in. The Oculus Rift is cool because it has a wire.

Dr. Mercola:                          Right. It’s not wired. Right.

Dave Asprey:                          You’re still getting the EMF, but it’s not a wireless transmitter stuck to your face, which is what’s scary to me.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. Yeah, that’s a good point.

Dave Asprey:                          Let’s talk, because one of the things that got me all excited when I heard you’re going to come up here is we got on the phone and you talked about a hack that you’ve been doing with hydrogen. Can you talk about hydrogen in EMF?

Dr. Mercola:                          I could, but that would be meaningless without explaining the problems with EMF.

Dave Asprey:                          All right. Let’s go down the EMF.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, that’s more important, I think, to understand that. I don’t know that we can do both in the context. We might be able to squeeze it in, but there really is a lot of baseline information that’s so crucial, and I’m going to be presenting this at your Bulletproof Conference.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh, that’s a good point. We should bring that up. Dr. Mercola is one of our keynote speakers, October 13th through 15th, 2017, at the Bulletproof Conference. We’re getting a mini, mini preview of a lot of the stuff you’re going to talk about, but I wanted you to pick this up because so many people, the skeptical, angry kind of people who say, “Oh, that can’t be, therefore you’re an idiot,” that sort of anti-science personal attack stuff, there’s a lot of that around EMF’s. Maybe 20 years ago, you could make an argument that it was only about heat.

At this point, there is overwhelming evidence that there are problems. I’ve got one of the guys who’s been working on this for a very long time here in the studio to share information with you about the specific EMF problems. Let’s just go through the different things you’ve identified as you’ve been going through this.

Dr. Mercola:                          Sure. Glad to, but before I do that, two things. One, I’ve never had this product before and they didn’t ask me to say this, but this is great stuff.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh, the Fat Water?

Dr. Mercola:                          Fat Water, man, I love this stuff.

Dave Asprey:                          Thank you.

Dr. Mercola:                          It’s good. I’ve never had it, and today was the first day I had it. Second things is just a touch back on the ketosis, I just came back from a low carb conference in Southern California, and a lot of the big leaders were there and it really was extraordinary to me that the vast majority of almost all of them actually believe that you should be in strict ketosis all the time, which is just … We’re some of the only people out there teaching that. It needs to be cyclical and pulsed, or the new term now that I learned is targeted, which means that-

Dave Asprey:                          Interesting.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, I think that’s more precise. You know, it’s always in the language. Cyclical means you could do it every three days and not actually focus and time it when you’re strength training, which is when you want to have that peak, that anabolic stimulus, so just a point on that. Let’s go back to EMF. I’ve known about EMF for a long time.

You talked about heating. In the literature, it’s simply called thermal. The vast majority of the radiation we’re exposed to is microwave radiation, and yes, that is your microwave oven. It was interestingly developed in World War II from the radars.

The first microwave oven was a manner Radarange, then it had marketing, figured this wasn’t good, people didn’t like that, and then they made it the microwave. Just cutoff the radar, and so it sounded better and they sold a lot more. I’m going to talk about the mechanism, and hopefully after I finish, you will implement one of the first recommendations, which is if you have a microwave, which, odds are, 99% of the chance, if you’re watching this, you have one, is to take it out and replace it. I’m not saying you shouldn’t heat your food.

There’s a time and a place to heat your food, no question, get a steam convection oven, and it will work just as rapidly and safely, because when you turn that microwave oven on, there will not be enough thermal leakage to cause to heat your tissue. I’m confident of that, but what it will do is expose you to very dangerous microwave radiations at levels that are far in excess of your cell phone. Every time you turn it on, you’re blasting you and your family. You do not want to do it. Just remove it from your environment.

Dave Asprey:                          Cuisinart makes a convection steam oven that’s incredibly affordable. It’s like a little toaster oven, it’ll fit in that same slot, and it works great.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, that’s your goal. If you’re going to use sweet potatoes, which is my favorite for targeted ketosis, I love sweet potatoes, that’s the best way to do it is to steam them.

Dave Asprey:                          Yep.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, and you can do it so easy in a steam convection oven. Getting back to the microwaves, this was developed, and the military knew about this, and there’s actually been four major reports that were published since 1950. I think the first big one was in 1971, the Navel Research Report, and there was three others since then, the documenting this stuff, that there is damage. They’ve done correlations, they’ve done studies, and there is clear damage from it, yet the industry persist in saying there is no thermal damage.

What the heck does that mean? Because I’ve known that for a long time. I’ve known it for over 10, maybe 15 years, and I’ve written about it, but some of the first papers that were written on it [inaudible] it’s not thermal, that’s not a thermal thing. They’re saying it’s thermal, it’s not, but we don’t know what it is. Now we know what it is, and that’s [crosstalk].

Dave Asprey:                          What the damage is? Okay.

Dr. Mercola:                          Exactly what it is. Once you understand what it is, the beauty of it is that you can remediate it. If you just know it’s not thermal, then it’s like philosophical. Who cares?

Dave Asprey:                          There’s something else to point out. We’re not saying you should never use any wireless device because they make your life really good.

Dr. Mercola:                          Absolutely. I still use them, but there’s ways that you compensate.

Dave Asprey:                          Yes.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yes. When I use my wireless device, it’s actually over there, and we may, I know we probably won’t, I should’ve brought it here first, is the selfie stick. I only use a speakerphone, not a wired headset. I use speakerphone and I put it three feet away from my body.

Dave Asprey:                          Nice.

Dr. Mercola:                          Even then, you’re still getting significant radiation, but it’s 90% less. I’m not guessing, I’ve measured it. It’s a little bit hard to measure. What makes this radiation so dangerous is that it’s not a static and steady radiation, it’s pulsed, which, biologically, magnifies the damage that it does when you pulse it. When you have a meter, it’s spiking all the time, it’s never steady level, but you can get a range and average it in your head.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay.

Dr. Mercola:                          We were talking-

Dave Asprey:                          We were talking-

Dr. Mercola:                          Oh, the thermal. I wanted to-

Dave Asprey:                          The thermal, right.

Dr. Mercola:                          … get thermal. By thermal, the way your microwave oven works, this is important to know, is that it interacts with charged particles that are in the food, or the tissue that’s being heated up, and in our case, it’s our brain typically, and it moves them and it vibrates. During this vibration, because your microwave typically is about a few gigahertz, which is about the same frequency that your cell phone operates at, so that’s why they’re both microwave radiation. The energy produced by your cell phone is a lot less. I mean, orders and magnitude less than your microwave oven.

Now, it’s certainly in the oven, but even the leakage outside. There’s no question that the leakage from a microwave oven and your cell phone does not cause thermal damage, just like the experts say, but they what they fail, they fail miserably on steroids, to state is that there are not any biological damage. There’s massive biological damage and this is where I’m going to explain. This is the key.

I didn’t figure this out, and I’m actually interviewing him tomorrow, this guy should win the Nobel Prize, and I encourage you to have him on your podcast, too.

Dave Asprey:                          I will.

Dr. Mercola:                          His name is Dr. Martin Pall, P-A-L-L. If you just type in his name and EMF on YouTube, you’ll see many lectures he’s given, and he’ll go to it in far greater detail, maybe even explain it a lot better than I am, but I’m going to try to consolidate one of my talents, is to convert it to regular language. He’s an incredible research scientist, but there have been many studies hundreds of studies that show when you are exposed to EMF radiation, you will increase intracellular calcium. Why is that important?

First of all, the calcium is really relatively low inside yourself compared to outside. When it comes in, it has a very important biological function. It’s an incredible signal, signor, so when you get calcium in there, it signals different things and you need that. You have to have that.

That’s normal. That’s healthy. You need calcium, but when you’re exposed to EMF and you get a lot more, we’ve known this. What we didn’t know was the mechanism of how that happens.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh.

Dr. Mercola:                          Dr. Pall figured it out.

Dave Asprey:                          That is the Nobel Prize territory.

Dr. Mercola:                          I’m telling you, in my view, I don’t say this lightly. I mean, I know a lot of researchers, there’s not many I would recommend to get a Nobel Prize, Seyfried might be one of them, too, who were actually in the Fat for Fuel book, where we’re donating the proceeds from that project to fund his research for a million dollars to continue the effort. Dr. Pall didn’t do the initial research, the bench research, but he complied over two-dozen studies that used calcium channel blockers on in vitro studies and in small animals, and then measured the damage from the EMF exposure, and it was virtually nothing.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow.

Dr. Mercola:                          Virtually nothing. He did this announcement in 2012, published in 2013, Dave, that’s only four years ago.

Dave Asprey:                          What happened?

Dr. Mercola:                          Virtually no one knows about this.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow.

Dr. Mercola:                          This was a landmark paper and it won some awards, and stuff, and I’m hoping he gets a Nobel Prize for it because it really is foundational. It provides the foundational basis to argue against the existing safety standards. That’s why this is so important. I’m just trying to lay the background.

Dave Asprey:                          The study found in animals, you said no damage?

Dr. Mercola:                          Virtually no damage.

Dave Asprey:                          From?

Dr. Mercola:                          From exposure to EMF’s.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. Mostly that was in vitro. There’s very few animal studies and it hasn’t been done in humans. Actually, when I interview him tomorrow, I’m going to coordinate a research protocol to establish what I believe may be one of the ways to mitigate the answers.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay. How was it that he was finding no damage from EMF in these things?

Dr. Mercola:                          The calcium channels blocked it.

Dave Asprey:                          Because he inflicts the calcium channels?

Dr. Mercola:                          He blocked the calcium channels.

Dave Asprey:                          This is pharmaceutical?

Dr. Mercola:                          Pharmaceutical, yes.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay. Calcium channel blockers are heart disease medications, right?

Dr. Mercola:                          Yes, and they work by blocking these calcium channels because that’s how they work. They have the side effect of also lowering the damage that EMF does.

Dave Asprey:                          The EMFs are causing excess calcium.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yes.

Dave Asprey:                          You take a drug that prevents excess calcium and the damage from the EMF is mitigated?

Dr. Mercola:                          Excess intracellular.

Dave Asprey:                          Intracellular calcium.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Good point. Yeah, of course.

Dr. Mercola:                          Very important because that’s outside. It doesn’t do anything to that, it’s just inside the cell. What does it do? It blocks the calcium channels, and more specifically, it’s called the Voltage Gated Calcium Channel, or a VGCC. Now, these are embedded in the cell membranes, and they have about 20 charged particles within them, but because they’re embedded in the membrane, there’s physical characteristics in [inaudible 00:19:28] and other things. This is the key that makes them not 10 times, not 20, not 100, not 1,000, not 10,000, not 100,000, but over seven million times more sensitive to EMF than the charged particles inside and out the cell that they are telling us that they are basing the safety standards on.

Dave Asprey:                          EMF is cooking, basically, the thing embedded in the cell membrane?

Dr. Mercola:                          No, it’s not cooking it, it’s just-

Dave Asprey:                          It’s vibrating it.

Dr. Mercola:                          It’s activating it.

Dave Asprey:                          Turning it on, okay.

Dr. Mercola:                          Turning it on. I’ll talk about what happens, but this is important to know because you assume what it’s doing, I’ll tell it to you. I’m not hiding it from you, but the downstream causes the damage, but you have to understand that those voltage gated calcium channels, receptors, are seven million times more sensitive to EMF than the charge particles inside and outside the cell.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow.

Dr. Mercola:                          That means the safety standards are off by a factor of seven million. Seven million.

Dave Asprey:                          What does that mean? Because are we going to all unplug our Wi-Fi forever? Go back to smoke signals?

Dr. Mercola:                          Well, no, No, no. One of the things that I love about you is you’re a tech guy. You get it. You know it. Once we understand the problem, we can develop technological solutions.

Dave Asprey:                          Thank you. Just if you’re listening to this, I know a lot of tech entrepreneurs, a lot of VC’s and all this, listen to Bulletproof Radio. Here’s the deal. There is a trillion-dollar business here replacing the global wireless infrastructure with biologic compatible wireless infrastructures.

Not like we can’t do it, but once you acknowledge the problem, there’s also big tobacco-style lawsuits for all the attorneys listening, go after the big Wi-Fi companies. There’s big money everywhere here and it’s time. The evidence is here

Dr. Mercola:                          Well, and it’s going to take a while for that transition to [crosstalk]. In the meantime, you need biological remediators, which we’re in the process of developing.

Dave Asprey:                          Yes.

Dr. Mercola:                          Essentially, you do not want to take a calcium channel blocker.

Dave Asprey:                          No, those are bad drugs.

Dr. Mercola:                          No. I wouldn’t recommend it, but if you had to and you had high blood pressure, or you had some other clinical indication for it, it might be a better choice than what somebody … like an ace inhibitor.

Dave Asprey:                          Is there a micro-dosing protocol for those? Do you want to maybe take a little bit?

Dr. Mercola:                          I don’t think so. No. Good question, but I think it really is a more reflection of blocking those receptors. You have to either block them or not block them, or partially block them. The more you block, let’s say if you’re going to be-

Dave Asprey:                          Okay. What’s the action rule from this? If someone’s listening to this-

Dr. Mercola:                          Well, let’s forget the action. I didn’t finish the mechanism.

Dave Asprey:                          All right. Good deal.

Dr. Mercola:                          You need to know the mechanism. It’s really important because it actually explains how, if you understand the mechanism, how you can remediate the damage.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay.

Dr. Mercola:                          Once this voltage gated calcium receptor is activated or stimulated by the EMF, in less than five seconds, a million calcium ions will be streaming out of that receptor through that channel every second.

Dave Asprey:                          Putting calcium into the cell?

Dr. Mercola:                          Into the cell.

Dave Asprey:                          Right.

Dr. Mercola:                          A million ions a second, just for one, and there’s a bunch of them.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay.

Dr. Mercola:                          Okay?

Dave Asprey:                          We fill this stuff-

Dr. Mercola:                          That doesn’t happen in a minute, five minutes, a week, it happens in less than five seconds. Boom! If you’re exposed to something a microwave radiation cell … What is microwave radiation? I didn’t expand on this. We’ll go back to mechanism.

Dave Asprey:                          Good point.

Dr. Mercola:                          Your microwave oven, obviously, we talked about, and your cell phone, obviously. Your cell phone tower, your Bluetooth headset, any Bluetooth device, any IOT, the Internets of Things, your baby monitor.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, those should be-

Dr. Mercola:                          Your Wi-Fi router, probably the biggest and most pernicious thing. This is going to be criminal. They’re going to look back at this like we look at smoking now. A baby monitor, the most sensitive tissue, brains, they’re exposing them to this Wi-Fi.

Dave Asprey:                          Here’s the deal, you can get baby monitors that have a plug and ethernet. I did that for my babies, and it was hard to find them. You can still find them.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yes, they’re hard to find. Less than 1%-

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, just don’t buy a wireless device to put in your kids room. It’s not okay.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. The internet things is coming. It’s emerging. You know about that. About the year 2020, I think, is when we have a trillion IOT devices. The Smart home, your smart thermostats. Try buying a thermostat that says not a Smart thermostat.

They’re becoming rare commodities. That means every time you walk by your thermostat, it’s going to be activated and it starts sending these Wi-Fi signals to your router. No Wi-Fi. You want to stay away from that. When we talk about microwave-

Dave Asprey:                          You have no Wi-Fi at your house at all?

Dr. Mercola:                          I have the potential to go on, but no, I have to plug in a separate router to do that.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah. I have a light switch, so when I want Wi-Fi, I flip the switch, I get Wi-Fi. When I don’t want it, I turn it off.

Dr. Mercola:                          I want to make it harder. I want to actually have to take it out, plug it to an ethernet, and plug in the adapter.

Dave Asprey:                          You have to receive an electric shock before you can plug it into the wall.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. You don’t feel bad after you’re just saying, “Wow, how come I didn’t know this?” I was ignorant and delusional, up until a few months ago. When I gave a lecture at Dr. Clinghouse presentation, and he reminded me of how damn dangerous this stuff is and it’s really foundational. Maybe even more important than diet.

Dave Asprey:                          It is highly important. One thing in Headstrong, I wrote about this, where I keep my cell phone, I don’t keep my cell phone by my junk. That’s a core Bulletproof rule because there’s a lot of stuff in your organs. Men or women.

Dr. Mercola:                          I’ll tell you why that is in a moment.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay, cool.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          I found out that right where I keep my cell phone by my right femur, my right thigh, I have 10% less bone density from just having the cell phone on in there. That’s scary stuff, right?

Dr. Mercola:                          You shared that in one of our interviews. Thank you for that because that was in my learning phase when I was activated. Now I’m full strung.

Dave Asprey:                          You’re really-

Dr. Mercola:                          I’m into this. It’s my next book, as I said. I really want to understand this is as best can be known and help catalyze the research to keep us safe, because I perceive it as one of the biggest threats that we have, health threats. Health threats. Let’s get back to the voltage gated calcium channel. Once it’s hit with the EMF, that calcium channel’s going to flood in, so what does it do?

It’s going to stimulate the release from at the … well, intracellularly of nitric oxide, and then when you have increased levels of nitric oxide, it’s going to combine with super oxide, which is a free radical. Nitric oxide is also a free radical, many people don’t know that. It’s a beneficial free radical, which is why you want to be very, very careful taking high doses of antioxidants. Yes, antioxidants are good, but if you take too many, you can indiscriminately suppress beneficial free radicals that your-

Dave Asprey:                          That’s exactly right.

Dr. Mercola:                          … body needs. Nitric oxide would be a good example of that. You need nitric oxide. It comes in, but it doesn’t keep on coming in because the voltage gated calcium channels keep … so it goes to extraordinary high levels, or it’s managed higher than it’s supposed to. Combined to the super oxide, and it forms a really dangerous free nitrogen radical, or free, not radical, free nitrogen species called peroxynitrate.

Dave Asprey:                          Yes, one of the big, bad free radicals.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, that’s a bad one. That spins off and creates hydroxyl free radicals, which are even more dangerous. You’ve got all this damage, and this damage, what will it do? It will cause single and double stranded breaks in the DNA, in the mitochondria, in the nucleus. It decimates cell membranes and proteins.

I mean, it’s basically accelerating aging on steroids when you have EMF.

Dave Asprey:                          The EMF triggers the voltage gated calcium?

Dr. Mercola:                          It activates them, right.

Dave Asprey:                          It activates it, right.

Dr. Mercola:                          It opens them up.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay. Now all the calcium flows-

Dr. Mercola:                          [Calciumides] fly through, yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          They fly through into the cell, and then what happens next is you get, you said-

Dr. Mercola:                          Increased nitric oxide.

Dave Asprey:                          … increased nitric oxide inside the cell.

Dr. Mercola:                          Inside the cell, yes.

Dave Asprey:                          Where you don’t want it.

Dr. Mercola:                          Well, you need-

Dave Asprey:                          You want a little bit, but not a lot.

Dr. Mercola:                          You want a little bit, not massive amounts.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay. Just like you need some calcium-

Dr. Mercola:                          Correct.

Dave Asprey:                          … and not too much, so you get too much calcium, too much-

Dr. Mercola:                          Nitric oxide.

Dave Asprey:                          … nitric oxide, and then that generates free radicals in the mitochondria.

Dr. Mercola:                          By combining with super oxide.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay, to get-

Dr. Mercola:                          Peroxynitrate.

Dave Asprey:                          Which is well-known, if you Google that stuff, that is one of the worst free radicals you can have for aging.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, as is hydroxy free radicals.

Dave Asprey:                          Right.

Dr. Mercola:                          You got those two going on. If this VGCC, the voltage gated calcium channels are so important, where are they? Which tissues have the highest concentration of VGCC’s?

Dave Asprey:                          I would imagine the brain, the eyes, and the heart.

Dr. Mercola:                          The brain. The brain. It’s not been documented, and I’ll actually ask Dr. Pall when I interview him tomorrow, but it would make sense.

Dave Asprey:                          The retina.

Dr. Mercola:                          The retina.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s got to be the retina.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. I haven’t seen any literature discussing it, but I’ll bet it is. Yeah, I’ll bet you’re right.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah.

Dr. Mercola:                          Specifically the heart, because the heart, of course, is one of the most mitochondrial, but it’s not just the heart, the cardiac tissue, it’s actually the nerve tissue.

Dave Asprey:                          Interesting.

Dr. Mercola:                          What does this mean? What is the practical implications of this? There’s so many practical just from this knowledge. Forget not even going to the remediation component. The practical component of this is that if … How many people do you know that have cardiac arrhythmias?

Dave Asprey:                          There are a lot of them out there.

Dr. Mercola:                          Atrial Fib, atrial flutter, PAC’s, PBC’s…lots, and they’re taking very dangerous drugs. Some of the most dangerous drugs we prescribe in medicine are these cardiac arrhythmics. I don’t recommend them, I recommend remediating most likely one of the major causes, which is exposure to EMF. No question about it, it’s going to trigger it.

I think we’re seeing, maybe not an epidemic, but certainly a large increase in the amount of people with arrhythmias. If you have a cardiac arrhythmia, please, or you know someone you love or care about, please let them know about this. Have them watch this video so that they can help take care of it and remediate against it.

Dave Asprey:                          Here’s a quick thing, and-

Dr. Mercola:                          Treat the cause and not the symptom. The drug is not treating the cause.

Dave Asprey:                          I got to say this. Dad, I know you’re watching. My dad, for years, kept his cell phone in his shirt pocked right above his heart, and he had heart surgery 12 years ago, and I’m like, “Take it away! Take it away!” He finally did just last year.

Dr. Mercola:                          One of the worst things-

Dave Asprey:                          Thank you.

Dr. Mercola:                          One of the worst things you can do.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah. Don’t do that. If you carry your cell phone in your bra or your chest pocket, if that’s all you took away from this thing, don’t do that. Keep it away from the vital organs.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. I live in Florida and I see a lot of women sometimes just carrying their cell phone. I stop them and I tell them. They usually carry it in the inside, or not the outside, so it stays there.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah. It’s right up against the tissue.

Dr. Mercola:                          I don’t know if you know about breast cancer, but the most common cause, or the most common location, because they divide the breast into four quadrants, the most common location is the upper, outer quadrant. When it’s breast cancer from a cell phone [inaudible], it’s the upper, inner quadrant because that’s where they’re holding the cell phone.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. That’s exactly where they’re holding it. The other place, and you’re right about not holding the cell phone near your testicles because the testis have a really high concentration of both those gated calcium channels. Fertility, we just wrote an article about this recently, the sperm count has dropped by 50%.

Dave Asprey:                          Scary.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. There’s a lot of variables. It’s not just EMF, but I believe it’s a very significant contribution.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s meaningful. When you stack it with things that are xenoestrogens-

Dr. Mercola:                          Oh, absolutely.

Dave Asprey:                          … in the environment from plastic and you stack it with things that cause mitochondrial damage, manmade toxins and things like that, then you have some pretty substantial just big problems.

Dr. Mercola:                          Let’s talk about this side, if we talk about cardiac rhythm, is the decrease in fertility, it probably affects women’s fertility. The study’s a little more difficult and challenging to do in that, but it probably is a contribution, although, of course, your wife would know about that. She’s been a fertility specialist. Regarding the brain, these voltage gated calcium channels also release neurotransmitters and neuroendocrine hormones.

Dave Asprey:                          Kind of important.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. Just a bit. We have a massive increase in anxiety and depressive disorders, which could clearly be related to this [exposure] myth. Clearly, there’s, although, a lot of other variables, sleeping and nutrition, and all the things that all don’t know about this, but hardly anyone thinks about EMF exposure. Then we have this increasing epidemic, which is an absolute epidemic, no question about it, that you and I know about, is autism.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, that’s a big thing.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. EMF is not the only cause, I believe that glyphosate is a big contributor to that. Vaccines don’t help, but I think if you don’t have the glyphosate and EMF, they’re not going to be as traumatic.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s just like a death by a thousand cuts.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Anything that’s going to cause neuroinflammation where your immune system attacks itself, all of these are documented to stack on. Saying it’s one cause, I think (Dr.) Mark Hyman is fond of saying if you have a thumbtack in this thumb and a thumbtack in this thumb, pulling out one thumbtack isn’t going to stop you from hurting. You got to take them both out, right?

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, yeah. This case is a lot more than two thumbtacks. It’s many. It’s more like closer to 1,000. Those are some of the common diseases that are complications. Of course, brain tumors, we have Ted Kennedy die from a brain tumor, we’ve got now John McCain who will pass away probably not too long because they don’t know how to treat cancer. I mean, even-

Dave Asprey:                          Some of us do.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, but they don’t. The conventional guys don’t.

Dave Asprey:                          Right.

Dr. Mercola:                          You can’t treat everyone if it’s been … especially if you had conventional therapy, it becomes really challenging. If you catch it early and you do these strategies that we recommend, you can almost always reverse. Nothings 100%, but you can get pretty close.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, a lot better than chemo.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, or radiation.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah.

Dr. Mercola:                          Sometimes you need them, and I’m not absolutely opposed to those, but you just got to be really careful in treating because you want to alternate your immune system that’s going to fight it. If you start trashing your immune system, it’s going to be a problem.

Dave Asprey:                          We’re talking about what happens peroxynitrite into cells. Okay. Now we’ve got all these free radicals and it’s caused all kinds of trouble. We know that having a cell phone near the brain, near the eyes, near the heart, these are the big, sensitive tissues.

Dr. Mercola:                          It’s not just the cell phone, too, remember it’s your microwave oven-

Dave Asprey:                          The Wi-Fi router.

Dr. Mercola:                          … which is much higher. The Wi-Fi routers.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah. I can tell you, we still have a microwave oven and it works really great for storing plates. We don’t cook anything in it.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, well just swap it out to steam convection.

Dave Asprey:                          We ought to. The steam convection’s on the counter.

Dr. Mercola:                          Oh, okay. That’s fine.

Dave Asprey:                          Someone’s listening to this, maybe they’re freaking out. They’re going to pull their baby monitor and replace it with a wired one. They’re realizing, “Well, my job relies on my cell phone,” what are some of the other things that you can do to lower your exposure to EMF, even though you recognize your problem and you got to get rid of it.

Dr. Mercola:                          I think that’s a good question because that is the first step. The first step is to lower your exposure. Now, we’re working on some biological implementations that can remediate the damage very successfully. I’m pretty confident that … well, the research hasn’t been done yet, but we have some pretty strong clinical evidence to suggest that it will. The key thing is limit your exposure. I used to encourage people to turn their Wi-Fi off at night, and I still think that’s a good strategy, but I think it’s inadequate. It’s [crosstalk].

Dave Asprey:                          It’s not enough. It just helps.

Dr. Mercola:                          It’s not enough. It helps, yeah. Why turn it off at night? Eight hours and expose yourself to 16 hours, it doesn’t make sense. If you hit your hand with a hammer for 24 hours, is bad, it’s less bad if you hit it for 16, but it’s still best if you stop it.

Dave Asprey:                          I can tell you when we had our house remediated from old, and before we moved in, I had ethernet put in every single room and it cost about $150 per ethernet drop. All right, and so there’s a 24-channel switch somewhere in the house where all the ethernet comes together and that’s where all the signal comes in. I can get ethernet in any room. That means I have to have the discipline to plug the device into the wall, and things like that.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, it’s a hassle, no question, but it’s worth the benefit.

Dave Asprey:                          It is.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. I think I’ve got a 48 port.

Dave Asprey:                          Nice.

Dr. Mercola:                          I’ve got them all over. When I moved in, I did the same strategy. It wasn’t a new house, so I just had them re-retrofit. You can convert a lot of the existing wires, like if you have a lot telephone circuits, you can convert those over to ethernet cables, as you would well know.

Dave Asprey:                          One warning, though. There’s something called power, or sorry, ethernet over power.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yes, EOP.

Dave Asprey:                          You take your power lines and use them to transmit ethernet.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yes.

Dave Asprey:                          That is not advisable because it’s going to increase the variability in your power lines. It actually-

Dr. Mercola:                          What, does it cause dirty electricity?

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, it causes dirty electricity.

Dr. Mercola:                          Oh, okay.

Dave Asprey:                          I don’t know if that’s a good strategy.

Dr. Mercola:                          Because that is one strategy that is possible that you want to avoid the expense, is you got these, I guess, devices that you would want to plug it into the router, then one plug into where you would take an ethernet.

Dave Asprey:                          [crosstalk]. Yeah.

Dr. Mercola:                          That’s ethernet over power.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s very convenient and it’s better than using Wi-Fi, but it will induce the power-

Dr. Mercola:                          The dirty electricity.

Dave Asprey:                          … power inside your walls to basically fluctuate a lot, which creates its own magnetic signal that also has an effect on yourselves.

Dr. Mercola:                          Which you can remediate partially with filters, capacitors.

Dave Asprey:                          I’m concerned the filters may take the signal out of the wire, though. I’m not sure. I’ve never tested it.

Dr. Mercola:                          That’s a good question. Good point. Okay. Anyway. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for bringing that to my attention because I thought that might’ve been a less expensive strategy for people, but-

Dave Asprey:                          It’s better than Wi-Fi, but not as good as just running a good old-fashioned ethernet cable.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. It’s hard to beat the wire, and I do it. I mostly have to plug my notebook in that I travel around my house with, or during my different strategies, doing the stations like seven, eight times a day, but it’s okay. I don’t mind it. My wifi’s off. It has not been on for a month, over a month.

Dave Asprey:                          That’s impressive.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. What’s not impressive is that I only figured this out recently. It’s like boom! I’m on a mission to have people not make the mistake that I did thinking that you are somehow biologically immune to this, that just because you think you’re smart or you know someone that you’re not going to … or you think you eat healthy and you’re not exposed to toxins, that your biology can somehow not be impacted by this, and I want to tell you that is a delusion. An absolute delusion. You are damaging yourself.

There is no way around it unless you’re immediate with some of this strategy we’re going to talk about, and you might be doing them, and even not knowing it because if you don’t know the mechanism, you can’t remediate.

Dave Asprey:                          One of the things I did, I’m going to sound like a tinfoil hat-wearing guy. I’ve been accused of that before, it doesn’t really offend me. I lived in a neighborhood with lots of Wi-Fi routers and I was working on recovering from toxic mold. I had serious brain fog.

I was doing ozone therapy that really made a difference for me, but I built my home office inside a Faraday cage inside the garage. I used aluminum sheeting, it was part of the structure for it.

Dr. Mercola:                          Did you measure it and so it went down to zero?

Dave Asprey:                          It went down to near zero.

Dr. Mercola:                          Okay. Perfect.

Dave Asprey:                          It wasn’t all the way. There was a window but overall, you [crosstalk].

Dr. Mercola:                          What did you use?

Dave Asprey:                          I used aluminum backs of foil sheeting with a copper connecting all the pieces together and stainless steel tape over that.

Dr. Mercola:                          Excellent.

Dave Asprey:                          Cell phone didn’t work inside, which is a pretty good sign.

Dr. Mercola:                          I sleep in a Faraday cage.

Dave Asprey:                          That’s where I was going to go with this next. If I was living in a high rise, where you’re just surrounded by your … you’re sleeping on top of your neighbors router, you have no control over that, I would have a Faraday cage, absolutely.

Dr. Mercola:                          And don’t make the mistake of doing a partial Faraday cage, which means if you’re in a large apartment building, if you’re not on the first floor, you have the radiation coming up through your bed, so you’ve got to do the floor. If you live in a high rise, you’ve got to be aware that the signals are coming up from below you, so you have to add an additional layer of fabric. What is this fabric? It’s not the aluminum foil, the copper that Dave was talking about, but it’s usually copper threads.

We’re actually in the process of seeking to manufacture some organic cotton canopies, but they also have silver and copper threads in there, which actually forms this metallic cage around you, and depending on the density of the metal fibers determines how effectively it’s going to remediate against that.

Dave Asprey:                          This is really important because if you imagine a parabolic dish, like the old satellite dishes that you’d see, they receive something that bounces off it and then reflects to a central point. If you’re sleeping in a half of a Faraday cage and there’s a signal coming up from underneath you, it can concentrate the signal right on you.

Dr. Mercola:                          Good point.

Dave Asprey:                          That actually really matters. Here’s the deal, if you sleep in a high rise with all the amazing conveniences of big-city life and there’s 75 Wi-Fi signals within range of where you sleep, you should expect to sleep like crap. That’s what happens, unfortunately. Dr. Mercola, you and I’ve written a lot about sleep hacking and improving sleep quality. EMF is a known contributor to low sleep quality.

You’re going to have to do this. You’re going to have to have the mysterious, sexy mid-summer nights. A shroud around your bed.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. No mosquitoes, if they get in.

Dave Asprey:                          Fair point. Those New York City mosquitoes in the high rises.

Dr. Mercola:                          If they ever get in, or flies or whatever.

Dave Asprey:                          That’s a fair point. It is actually how we are going to live, at least those of us who live the longest and best and are the strongest, and can afford it and have the knowledge to do it. It’s just how it is.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. They’re not inexpensive.

Dave Asprey:                          No.

Dr. Mercola:                          I put one in-

Dave Asprey:                          They’re quite expensive.

Dr. Mercola:                          I live in the first floor and I still put one under my bed, or under the mattress so that there’s nothing coming up to me. They are probably $1500 to $2000 per bed.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah.

Dr. Mercola:                          As much as some expensive mattresses.

Dave Asprey:                          I’ve never thought about this. Maybe I’ll make one. I don’t think I will. We’re doing enough with Big Food and with the [crosstalk].

Dr. Mercola:                          Our take on it will be organic cotton, which is not as critical because you’re not touching it, but still.

Dave Asprey:                          Can you make it like a sleeping bag so when I travel I’m in a hotel room?

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, once we get it set up, I’d be glad to do that for you. Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          I mean, you should sell them for other people, too.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, I should do it for myself. That’s a good idea.

Dave Asprey:                          I would travel in a sleeping bag because-

Dr. Mercola:                          You heard it here, folks.

Dave Asprey:                          All right. I would pay a lot for that. By the way, all the road warriors who listen to this, and there’s a thousand of them, I think most of us who want to feel really good, I sleep on a grounding mat when I travel.

Dr. Mercola:                          What am I doing now? We’ve got my device. I use a TES, TES-593, which is a microwave meter. I bring it with me when I travel because I don’t have this-

Dave Asprey:                          Is that up here?

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, it is.

Dave Asprey:                          Can you grab that black box [crosstalk]?

Dr. Mercola:                          It’s a black box.

Dave Asprey:                          TES-593. You use this before you go to sleep in a hotel room. What does it do?

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. It will tell me where I’m going to sleep. Thank you, Elliot. We’re going to take this out and turn it on. It looks like a there’s a lot of different devices. Some of them are pretty expensive, like a few thousand dollars. This one retails for $500, but if you just go to Google Shopping, or even Amazon, you can find it for-

Dave Asprey:                          Hold it up like that.

Dr. Mercola:                          … can find it for $350. A lot of people make the mistake, I mean Trifield’s a very popular, but folks, please understand, Trifield meters only measure magnetic, and if you have a high magnetic exposure, as you do with from an inverter for several [inaudible] solar panels, that Faraday cage will not remediate against it because magnetic goes right through it.

Dave Asprey:                          Right.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. This is up now and we are going to get a live reading in your studio.

Dave Asprey:                          We have Wi-Fi turned on, too.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, this device has many different units. You have to press this one, two, three, okay, to the point where it is really pretty high. You want to go to the units of microwatts per square centimeter, which is the standard measurement of energy in the United States, and also it’s actually the lowest.

Dave Asprey:                          What’s that one point?

Dr. Mercola:                          Well, you’re between one and two, which is pretty high.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, that’s because the wifi’s right over there.

Dr. Mercola:                          Usually I sleep, it’s a .003. Yeah, but that’s okay.

Dave Asprey:                          Not really. I work here.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, but you got to fix this, Dave.

Dave Asprey:                          No, I know what it is.

Dr. Mercola:                          I wouldn’t expose myself to that normally.

Dave Asprey:                          There’s a switch that turns that off, we just don’t have the switch off right now.

Dr. Mercola:                          When I go to a hotel room, I will measure which side of the bed. As I’ve just been traveling and slept in two hotel rooms, or two hotels different hotels in the last few days, and there was a tenfold difference between one side of the bed than the other.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow. You picked the side of the bed-

Dr. Mercola:                          I picked a side of the bed that had the least amount because you don’t know where they’re hiding these things. The other thing, if you’re serious about this, you really need a meter, and you can give it to your friends. There’s three physicians that I know, two other physicians and myself who use these. Every single one of us found hidden sources of radiation.

The other sources I neglected to mention were, earlier, your wireless mouse, your wireless keyboard, anything that’s wireless, including this ring. The OURA Ring, which you and I are both fans of. If you have an OURA Ring, I know many of you do, it has to be in airplane mode. The problem, and it’s a serious problem, and if you could please write the company, we need as much pressure on them as possible to fix the bug because this will spontaneously come out of airplane mode on a regular basis, multiple times during the day. It’s unacceptable because it is a significant exposure.

You wouldn’t know that unless you measure it, and unfortunately, most of you live in environments where the EMF is so high you can’t measure because the background is so high. You have to have a low EMF environment to measure it.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah. It’s one of those things if you’re getting a monitoring and you’re not broadcasting, there’s almost no EMF from the thing, which is why I like the ring, but if it accidentally turns itself on and then starts broadcasting and you don’t know it, now you’re sitting there where-

Dr. Mercola:                          It’s a significant signal. Admittedly it’s your hand, but if you sleep with your hand on your chest, it’s a problem.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah. Okay. What else could people do if they’re a little concerned about this now? Is there any nutritional intervention? You can tell this helps with almost everything, but it’s-

Dr. Mercola:                          Yes, it does.

Dave Asprey:                          … not going to protect you from EMF permanently.

Dr. Mercola:                          No. What you want to do is improve your antioxidants. Not just any antioxidants.

Dave Asprey:                          Fair point, right?

Dr. Mercola:                          No. Ideally, you want to use one. Two ways to do it. The first, and most important, we discussed. Lower the exposure, but there’s going to be exposure that you just have no control over, so what do you do then?

The cool way to do, or the interesting approach, and there’s really no studies done on this yet, we’re in the process of establishing them and developing the parameters, talking to Dr. Pall who’s done a lot of this research to find out the best idea strategy to document this, these remediation efforts. I’m hoping within a year we’ll have results of that. It appears that there’s two really impressive strategies that you can use. One is simple magnesium.

Dave Asprey:                          Take more magnesium, you heard it here first.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. We all know that 80% of us, the population, maybe is in deficient, so that’s not a bad idea from [inaudible].

Dave Asprey:                          I do 800 milligrams a day now.

Dr. Mercola:                          I think you’re going to want to increase it closer to two grams.

Dave Asprey:                          Without crapping myself? Is there a [crosstalk] for that?

Dr. Mercola:                          Oh, yeah, there’s a way through that. We can talk about that, but there’s a lot of different strategies.

Dave Asprey:                          All right. Let’s talk about that. Disaster prevention magnesium. Bad idea.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. It depends on the type of magnesium. We’re doing some research in this now, some novel forms of magnesium that people may not be familiar with.

Dave Asprey:                          I take a big mix of types, yeah.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, you definitely need a variety of types. You don’t want to have loose stools because that’s going to be counterproductive too, but if you’re not having loose stools, I would just continue to increase.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay.

Dr. Mercola:                          I am confident 800’s too low. It’s probably closer to two grams.

Dave Asprey:                          For most people, 400 is considered pretty hefty, and I’m doing twice that.

Dr. Mercola:                          Oh, no, no. You are under-dosing.

Dave Asprey:                          All right.

Dr. Mercola:                          It’s very serious.

Dave Asprey:                          [Crosstalk] some more.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. You are going to see a difference.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow.

Dr. Mercola:                          Especially the other strategy I’m going to talk about now, when you travel, you’re going to send me an email saying, “I can’t believe the difference.”

Dave Asprey:                          All right. This is cool.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. Clearly magnesium, and we’re looking at something called magnesium bicarbonate, which you can’t buy, but you have to create in some exotic strategies, or maybe do it through another process. We’re in the process of identifying grass, generally recognized as safe supplements that can be used and can be purchased without having to do some of these crazy biohacks.

Dave Asprey:                          You’re going to talk about those at the Bulletproof Conference? How to potentially do that at home in the meantime?

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          For that crowd?

Dr. Mercola:                          Okay, I will, I will.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. I just found out about this two days ago.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay. I’m familiar this is stuff, we talked about off camera, but yeah, I was familiar with the mixing the things together.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. I wasn’t aware of that, but I think that’s probably the most, and in fact, in the limited research I’ve read in the last few days, suggests that it’s like the fountain of youth. This is stuff about magnesium bicarbonate is just beyond extraordinary. I had never been exposed to it before.

Dave Asprey:                          I had read this stuff a couple of years ago and did it once, but I couldn’t find a good source for one of the things. I’m like, “There’s so many hacks, but the research is compelling.” Yeah.

Dr. Mercola:                          Especially when you understand it’s going to help mitigate the EMF damage.

Dave Asprey:                          This is a big thing. I didn’t know that.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, that is huge.

Dave Asprey:                          If you’re listening-

Dr. Mercola:                          I don’t want to go into personal details, but I confirmed it myself over the weekend that it works, and from a biological perspective. It was a little mini test that I did unexpectedly, but at least in one of the tissues.

Dave Asprey:                          For when we talk about bicarbonate, you know about baking soda, which is sodium bicarbonate and it’s a strong alkali, but there are other things. There’s potassium bicarbonate, which is another thing that you might take some of, and something that I actually do use, and then magnesium bicarbonate, which is very hard to get as a supplement because it sucks-

Dr. Mercola:                          You can’t buy it.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s sucks water in and changes things, so it’s not stable.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, you cannot buy it.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah.

Dr. Mercola:                          It’s not stable, you cannot buy it. You have to create it yourself, and there’s several different ways to do it. I’ll be talking about it at the Bulletproof Conference, which is the reason why you need to be there! I am so excited. I have never been to the Bulletproof Conference, but I am just ramped up. I cannot wait to go.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s really cool to have seen biohacking emerging as a field because you were doing it before it had this name and the title. What are all the things you can do, and really one of the pioneers in the field, and so to be able to pull together a group of people from different disciplines to talk about this stuff, so I think you’ll definitely turns some heads with what you have to say there because I’m pretty excited. This is one of those big things.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. Now, the other big thing that we’ll explain more in depth at the conference, Dave has been gracious enough to give me two segments, so I’ll have close to two hours there, which is great, is molecular hydrogen.

Dave Asprey:                          Yes.

Dr. Mercola:                          Dave has knew about this for a while. In fact, he met the leader in the field, at least in the United States, which is Tyler LaBaron, a youngster, 29-years-old, who can deadlift 450 pounds and run a 220 marathon. Yes, I did not mistake, say that incorrectly, 220.

Dave Asprey:                          In fact, it was Tyler … If you subscribe to the Dave Asprey Biohacking Blogs every quarter, I put together a bunch of neat stuff you haven’t heard of, I put it in a box and ship it to you. You can go to biohacked.com. That’s bio H-A-C-K-E-D dotcom. You can subscribe.

You would’ve received some of these hydrogen tablets, I think two boxes ago, because the cutting-edge stuff, I always put it in there and you get it. You don’t know what you’re going to get, but it’s really cool.

Dr. Mercola:                          It helps if you know what it is so you know how to use it.

Dave Asprey:                          No, I tell people how to use it, but the idea is I curate all the good stuff, and so people who are super into Bulletproof, they-

Dr. Mercola:                          Good idea.

Dave Asprey:                          Essentially, they save a couple hundred dollars. I send them $200-300 worth of stuff for $100 bucks, and I pick out the good stuff. That’s Biohacked.com.

Dr. Mercola:                          That sounds like a great deal. I’m going to have to get on that list.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s a lot of work, to be honest, but I’ll send you the box, for sure. Curated in the box, but it’s fun because all the toys I give-

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, yeah. That’s great. That’s a great thing.

Dave Asprey:                          There’s probably 2,000 listening who know about this.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. Or at least been exposed to, but if you haven’t, Tyler LaBaron, L-A-B-A-R-O-N, just type in that and molecular hydrogen. He has his own website, molecularhydrogenfoundation.org, which is a crazy long name.

Dave Asprey:                          800 studies on his website about hydrogen.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, it’s really good. Just type it in YouTube so you can listen to some of this lectures. That’s where you’ll get it because he’s got more time than I do right here. Essentially, it is the summary, the cliff note version is that it’s molecular hydrogen, which is two atoms of hydrogen, the smallest molecule in the universe that can defuse across any cell membrane, has no polarity, is a neutral molecule and gets in there instantly, is a selective, it’s probably the best antioxidant known to man, it’s a selective antioxidant that does … We talked about this earlier, there’s a baseline level of normal valuable important biological free radicals, and if we lower that, we are heading for trouble.

Dave Asprey:                          I’m sorry. There’s some supplements you can take that turn off free radical production in the cells, and-

Dr. Mercola:                          Dangerous.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh, my God. You take those for two days and you want to die. You can’t pick your arm up. It’s horrible.

Dr. Mercola:                          You need free radicals.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, they’re important.

Dr. Mercola:                          What you don’t need is excessive free radicals that-

Dave Asprey:                          Or the wrong ones.

Dr. Mercola:                          Or the wrong ones. This is precisely what molecular hydrogen does, and they’ve done the studies. I’ll show you the slide when I’m there. The baseline free radicals is here and a hydrogen at the same level, and then they expose a group of animals to high dose ionizing radiation-

Dave Asprey:                          Bad stuff.

Dr. Mercola:                          … which can … This is a real interesting fact, the ionizing radiation has enough energy because it is shorter waves. By itself, the energy in those waves will break the [inaudible] bonds in DNA. Cause single [dopus gender] breaks. This is a not well-known fact, is that that is not what causes the majority of the DNA breakage. What causes it?

Dave Asprey:                          Peroxynitrite.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yes. Pre-radical damage. Oxidative stress. That causes it. Actually, in most instances, now if you get a nuclear reaction exposure like Hiroshima or something, then you’re going to be dead, yes. That’s deadly, but in most cases, the microwave radiation exposure is more dangerous than X-rays.

Dave Asprey:                          Interesting.

Dr. Mercola:                          More dangerous than X-rays.

Dave Asprey:                          Because of the oxidative stress, it-

Dr. Mercola:                          Yes.

Dave Asprey:                          … creates [crosstalk].

Dr. Mercola:                          It’s the oxidative stress.

Dave Asprey:                          Because the [crosstalk].

Dr. Mercola:                          Let me just finish this one slide I was trying to illustrate, that I’ll be showing at the conference, is they have a certain level, the level of reactive austence species goes much higher, maybe six times higher, and then when you give hydrogen, it comes down not as low as baseline levels, but it mitigates 80% of the damage. What the heck? What’s the take home on this? Very valuable if you happen to fly in airplanes because ionizing radiation is also gamma rays, which you’re going to hit at 35,000 feet, and I have taken a Geiger counter up, and it’s like ten times higher at 35,000 than it is at ground level.

Dave Asprey:                          Especially during the day.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. I didn’t see a difference.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh, at night you don’t see a difference?

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. I didn’t see a difference.

Dave Asprey:                          Interesting.

Dr. Mercola:                          I did not. That’s what David Wolf had said, and I said, “I’m going to test it,” and it didn’t was the same.

Dave Asprey:                          Surprising. Okay.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. His theory is flawed. It was not true, but it’s still bad. I think this is what you’re going to love because you didn’t know this, you’re going to try this hydrogen out, it’s going to make-

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, I’ve never tried it in mid-flight.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. Not mid-flight.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh, before?

Dr. Mercola:                          When you take hydrogen, you could actually breathe it all day long. Not a good idea. Your body makes hydrogen gas, about 10 liters a day, and so a healthy baseline, that’s one of the reasons why your microbiome is so healthy because it’s making hydrogen gas. When you have a steady state of exposure, you don’t get the other benefits, so you want to pulse it just like we pulse it and genesis.

Dave Asprey:                          Right.

Dr. Mercola:                          Pulsing, pulsing, pulsing. That’s where you get the benefit. The strategy I use now and used on my last few flights, and it’s worked marvelously, I’ve had no side effects from travel and I flew across the country. It was just crazy. Literally over 10 hours of flying in the air.

There’s a number of different ways to get it, but the most practical way for most people is going to be the hydrogen tablets. We don’t sell them. We will in the future. We’re going to try to have the best one out there in the market.

Everything. It’s going to be grass and the highest concentration part per million, and nano bubbles, and all this stuff that we’re going to be doing, but we don’t have it now. Probably won’t have it for a year, maybe hopefully less. As soon as you go up in the air, well, no, maybe at 5,000 feet, before the signal comes on that your wifi’s on, you can turn your Wi-Fi on now, or you-

Dave Asprey:                          On an airplane. That’s right.

Dr. Mercola:                          You can get up, you know? That’s 10,000 feet. Even that time is probably okay to have a long flight. You put the tablet in a little bottle of water.

Dave Asprey:                          This is like a hydrogen tablet you can buy, right?

Dr. Mercola:                          Right.

Dave Asprey:                          You don’t sell them, I don’t sell them, so we’re just talking about stuff you can get online, right?

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. You can’t get them in problems or claims here.

Dave Asprey:                          No commercial relationship for either one of us.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. We will do it in the future, but we’re not doing it now. I think this is the most important supplement I take, I really do. I take it before ozone, too. I do ozone every day.

Dave Asprey:                          Interesting.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          I breathe hydrogen gas for 90 minutes when I return from a flight.

Dr. Mercola:                          No. I think you need to do it before, but you need to do it during the flight, so let me finish this.

Dave Asprey:                          During the flights. Cool, yeah.

Dr. Mercola:                          You want to put it in a little bottle, preferably with a cap, so because it’s hydrogen gas, it’s going to blow out, so you put it in there, not cold water because it’ll slow down the reaction time, and you put it in and let the tablet dissolve completely, and then you open the cap and drink it as quickly as you can without swallowing it the wrong way.

Dave Asprey:                          Right, right.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, because you want the hydrogen gas to go into your body, and it will work for about two hours. It’ll literally reduce the damage from the gamma rays by about 80%. If you’re a flight attendant or a pilot, this is absolutely imperative. I say about two hours, so if you get a two hour flight or a 230, it’s fine, one tablet should work, but if you got anything longer, I would look at doing two tablets and put one right in the middle of the flight.

Dave Asprey:                          Cool. I’m going to be playing around with this. It’s funny, I sent a bottle of tablets out in the Biohacking box.

Dr. Mercola:                          You guys can play, too.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah.

Dr. Mercola:                          Unless you used them already.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, if you got one of those, now you know. I never thought using them during a flight.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, that’s probably one of the most important-

Dave Asprey:                          It’s a good hack.

Dr. Mercola:                          Even another good one is when you hack it before and after exercise. Exercise generates reactive oxidants and species, right? Again, it’s a selective antioxidant. It won’t stop any of the species that are going to promote anabolic benefits of the exercise, it’ll just stop the dangerous ones. It’s a selective antioxidant.

This is new. The first stuff, why don’t you know about this? Because the first major study that was published was in 2007, 10 years ago, almost all the literature is in Japanese. Tyler went to study it in the [Goy University 00:57:17] and learned all this stuff from the experts, that’s why he’s a world-class expert in the US. That’s why you don’t know about it. It’s brand new.

Dave Asprey:                          Yep. You can buy hydrogen water machines all over Japan now, and you barely see them here.

Dr. Mercola:                          I don’t recommend hydrogen water.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, I know, but it’s [crosstalk].

Dr. Mercola:                          Because it’s not the pulse, you need the pulse.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, but I’m just saying-

Dr. Mercola:                          They’re switching. They’re switching from that to having the high dose just intermittently.

Dave Asprey:                          I’m a fan of that. I would say get some hydrogen when you can get some hydrogen.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. High doses, if you can.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah. It’s better if you can get the high dose, but what I was going to say there is if you’re lifting something, right, what happens is you get the positive free radicals that are beneficial, that, say, build new muscles. At the same time, you get ones that say oxidative stress enters the world, create aging. If you can turn off the aging ones and turn on the muscle growth ones, that’s cool, and that’s what hydrogen gas does, which is different than, say, what a vitamin C capsule’s going to do, even though vitamin C’s good at quenching peroxynitrite, it quenches the good ones as well.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. I don’t recommend people taking vitamin C regularly. I think it’s something, especially Liposomal C, that everyone should have in their emergency kit because I’ve never seen anything more effective. Taking four grams every hour, Liposomal C, because you will not get loose stools.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, or intravenous, yeah.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, but Liposomal, it’s going to be a fraction of the cost, and it sure is a lot easier.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, it doesn’t raise the levels nearly as much, though.

Dr. Mercola:                          I think it may raise them more.

Dave Asprey:                          Wow. I’d be interested to see that research.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. I think Tom Lebee’s done it.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay, yeah, I know Tom.

Dr. Mercola:                          Because it goes intracellular where you need it.

Dave Asprey:                          Okay.

Dr. Mercola:                          Whereas, the other, the regular vitamin C-

Dave Asprey:                          Intracellular supply level shows.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          We don’t want to get too far off that because we don’t want to go down. It may be a long, interesting discussion, but another episode of the show.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          The important point for listeners is just to understand free radicals are not good or bad. Bad free radicals are bad, good free radicals are good, just like bad fats are bad and good fats are good.

Dr. Mercola:                          Well, it’s not so much bad free radicals. You need a certain baseline, so it’s excessive free radicals that [crosstalk].

Dave Asprey:                          I don’t know that any peroxynitrite is beneficial for us.

Dr. Mercola:                          Well, that we know of, but who knows. Maybe you need a certain baseline.

Dave Asprey:                          Fair point. You’re not going to get rid of all of it.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          The idea is to change the ratio of these, just like we might change the ratio of omega six to omega three fatty acids in our diet and get a benefit by suppressing the six and increasing the threes, but not getting rid of the sixes.

Dr. Mercola:                          These free radicals aren’t hanging around for hours, days, or weeks. They literally last a very tiny fraction of a second. That’s why you have to have it there right away. It’s exactly what molecular hydrogen does.

Dave Asprey:                          I’ll definitely try one of the hydrogen tablets in water while flying.

Dr. Mercola:                          Well, bring a bunch, just in case.

Dave Asprey:                          Of course. Okay. That’s a pretty cool hack.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          All right. Now, we’ve talked about that. We’ve talked about some ketosis is always good. We’ve talked about just minimizing exposure from where you carry your devices from Wi-Fi routers using more ethernet.

Anything else people listening to the show today can go home and do? We talked about Faraday cages even, but what else could you do right now?

Dr. Mercola:                          With respect to EMF?

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah.

Dr. Mercola:                          I think I would do the due diligence because this is so new. I would encourage and strongly encourage you to actually be an advocate for this because there’s, essentially, industry conspiracy, and it really is a conspiracy. I mean, if you read the stories, it’s just as bad as the drug industry, if not worse, that they’re suppressing this information. Any legitimate researcher comes up is defunded and discredited.

Dave Asprey:                          That’s a fair point, that is happening.

Dr. Mercola:                          This information is out now. As I said, I believe Dr. Pall should get the Nobel Prize for his work, so watch his lectures, understand it so that you can communicate this to your friends and neighbors. They don’t have to die and suffer prematurely because they don’t know this information, and just be an advocate for it. The other one, an important one I forgot, smart meters.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh, yeah. Those are [crosstalk].

Dr. Mercola:                          Smart meters. The same, probably worse than Wi-Fi.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah. Terrible for you.

Dr. Mercola:                          We’re recording this the first week of August, or the second week of August, so the first week of August, you go on my site, we ran a documentary about smart meters. It goes in a lot of the details and is encouraging people to band together because they have extortionaries. You can actually not have a smart meter in your house like I do, but I have to pay $35 a month to do that. That’s extortion.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, we have some fee like that, too.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, I think they do it to everyone, and supposedly it’s to justify the cost of having to send someone out. Well, that’s not too bad, but I’m sure they’re making extra money on it and they never charged you for it before. It was already built into the equation.

Dave Asprey:                          It’s like charging your power company $35 a month for not throwing rocks through their plate glass windows, right?

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, yeah. Very good analogy. Yeah, I love that. Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          It doesn’t make any sense to me.

Dr. Mercola:                          I’ll bet it increases the bottom line.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, of course. I understand there are things, I don’t want to send someone to your house because it’s expensive, bottom line is, sorry guys, you have a monopoly, you got to do your jobs, you get paid to send people to my house because you didn’t pay me to, basically, take the hit biologically for the wireless stuff.

Dr. Mercola:                          It’s not like their cost went up because they’ve been doing this since they’ve been providing power. This smart meter thing is a relatively new introduction for most communities.

Dave Asprey:                          If you acknowledge that Wi-Fi causes problems, you can engineer a smart meter that is not biologically harmful. It doesn’t have to send constant usage stuff. That’s all gravy. If it’s going to send once a day, a daily usage thing, and some of that other stuff, it doesn’t matter. It’s a single pulse.

It’s irrelevant. It’s the constant sending of data that they’re doing, and bottom line is, guys, if you’re a smart meter engineer listening to this, well, you probably already turned it off because I made you mad, but that’s good, or not. Here’s the deal, you can fix the problem. There is such a thing as a smart meter that’s not harmful. No one makes it because the demand is there, but no one’s acknowledged the demand, so here’s the demand. You got, what, a quarter million people listening to this, this is your demand.

Dr. Mercola:                          Absolutely.

Dave Asprey:                          We’ll buy those.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, absolutely. I don’t know about the compatibility between all the different utilities, but there certainly is a need for it, there’s no question. If you’re an entrepreneur, you can fit that need, but I think all the message is just be an advocate. Understand this and start telling people about it. Let’s start spreading the word. I think that’s what we do.

I realized a long time ago that really, the way we’re going to get this is not by going to the government or trying to change the law, that’s not going to work. It has to come from the public. Public has to demand this and refuse to, I guess, relinquish their power to these authorities and rely on their belief that the only damage is thermal damage, and that is absolutely biologically true.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah. There’s a long history of changing demand in order to cause change and changing supply.

Dr. Mercola:                          We’re doing it with organic.

Dave Asprey:                          Well, we’re doing it with organic-

Dr. Mercola:                          Glyphosate, which is now poison.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Mercola:                          We can’t always allow that.

Dave Asprey:                          You’ve changed demand for stuff with Mercola.com.

Dr. Mercola:                          The new thing is biodynamic.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, oh, that’s much better. The Sar Garden is biodynamic and so is yours, right?

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. Absolutely.

Dave Asprey:                          Now there’s some stuff in biodynamic that’s really hard for people to swallow because if you follow the full standard, you have to bury a cow’s head full of poop, or something, under a full moon-

Dr. Mercola:                          No, no, it’s actually the horn with manure. It’s buried. Here’s the next level, is to take that manure out and develop a compost tea out of it and then spray it all over the property.

Dave Asprey:                          Interesting.

Dr. Mercola:                          You actually spread the microbes around.

Dave Asprey:                          What’s going on there is you could say, “Oh, that’s a bunch of hippy fairy stuff,” or you could say, “Oh, there’s actually biological materials,” and you’re culturing microbes in the soil and then spreading them around, which is what’s going on, so it’s careful microbe management.

Dr. Mercola:                          It’s relatively easy to do, even if you don’t have a cow, you can buy these.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, it’s not that hard to do, but it’s funny because it has a reputation for being really out there, but it actually works for the best pot on the planet and the best wine on the planet, it’s all biodynamic.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. Imagine that.

Dave Asprey:                          There’s a reason.

Dr. Mercola:                          If it didn’t work, they wouldn’t do it.

Dave Asprey:                          Right. That’s what it comes down to.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          Well, on that note, Dr. Mercola, thank you for this episode of Bulletproof Radio. I think that there’s some real actionable stuff that people can do that we talked about.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. Try to get people actionable stuff, yeah.

Dave Asprey:                          You’re going to get into more detail at the Bulletproof Conference, which is-

Dr. Mercola:                          Yes.

Dave Asprey:                          Which is pretty cool.

Dr. Mercola:                          Plan on going there, definitely go.

Dave Asprey:                          We’re going to have eight hydrogen machines there as well, so there’ll be a hydrogen stations, so-

Dr. Mercola:                          Oh, interesting.

Dave Asprey:                          … people can start learning about hydrogen, which is super cool, and a hundred other cell exhibitors.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, I’m really looking forward to it.

Dave Asprey:                          [crosstalk]

Dr. Mercola:                          I’m excited.

Dave Asprey:                          I’m looking forward to your talk because you’ve been really on top of this stuff for a long time, and you’re going to be sharing stuff that you haven’t talked about before.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, and I’m also going to be sharing my favorite biohacks, but I’m not going to do it in the main lecture that we have. I have a 15 minute where I speak to everyone and there’s a breakout session, we’ll be sharing those in one of the breakouts.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh, I’m excited to see that. Dr. Mercola, on every episode of Bulletproof Radio, I always ask people for three things, three pieces of advice you would … obviously someone who wants to perform better, and since you’ve already answered that in the last episode, people can and should hear that whole episode, what I would normally do is say three things you can do to mitigate EMF, but we already just listed those, so I think you got [crosstalk].

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah. It’s hard because there’s so many good things. The real food, the movement, and gratitude is huge, is massively important. I mean, it’s just such a good strategy. There’s another interesting tool that I think would be very useful that I just encountered because my mother passed away a few weeks ago, and it was probably the biggest grief challenge I’ve had. We all have our parents, not all, but eventually they go.

Dave Asprey:                          Yeah, people die.

Dr. Mercola:                          Hopefully they do. People die. We all have people that we know and love pass away. There was a great book and I don’t know if you’ve read it, it’s by David Hawkins, H-A-W-K-I-N-S, MVP.

Dave Asprey:                          [crosstalk].

Dr. Mercola:                          He’s written a lot of books and he passed. He was a brilliant physician and researcher. He was really into energy medicine, but this last book, before he went, was Letting Go: The Pathway to Surrender. Definite read. You’ve got to put it on your list.

Dave Asprey:                          Oh, I’ll read that.

Dr. Mercola:                          I think it’s one of the most profoundly powerful and simple tools you can use. Doesn’t cost you anything but the price of the book. It’s $15. It’s just a simple technique that you can do, just eloquently explain that really not just for grief, although that’s a powerful one, but just about any emotion-

Dave Asprey:                          Expectations.

Dr. Mercola:                          … and feeling that you have that’s really destructive. We all know that stress is a big issue, but a lot of it, we have the tool. This gives you the tool to do that and it doesn’t really cost anything.

Dave Asprey:                          That’s called Letting Go?

Dr. Mercola:                          Letting Go: The Pathway to Surrender, David Hawkins, H-A-W-K-I-N-S.

Dave Asprey:                          All right. That is a fantastic piece of advice. I think that’s the first time someone’s offered a book as one of their answers to that.

Dr. Mercola:                          Well, because it’s-

Dave Asprey:                          It’s important.

Dr. Mercola:                          The stress, sure, if people say stress, but how are you going to remediate the stress?

Dave Asprey:                          Great. Great advice. People can pick up your latest book, which is Fact for Fuel, online, Amazon, on Mercola.com, all the other standard places you expect to find it. It’s definitely worth the time to read that book. I will see you guys at the Bulletproof Conference, and again, Dr. Mercola, it’s a pleasure having you over for lunch.

Dr. Mercola:                          Yeah, thanks for your gracious hospitality. It was wonderful to visit your labs, and I’m inspired to probably get some of the stuff that you got down here, and great to see your garden. I hear you talk about it all the time, but it was just great, and your wife, your lovely wife, Lana.

Dave Asprey:                          Thank you

Dr. Mercola:                          She’s great.

Dave Asprey:                          Awesome. Well, we will see you all on the next episode. If you liked this episode, if you got something useful out of it, there’s a couple things you can do to say thanks. One of them is you could pick up a copy of Fat for Fuel, it’s worth your time to read it, and share this information. Pick up a copy of Headstrong, if you don’t have it.

Something that authors, like Dr. Mercola and I, really pay attention to is online reviews. If you go to Amazon and you say, “Hey, this book was worth reading,” and tell someone else, that is an active service for them and for us because we pay attention to that. It really matters, so I would be really grateful if you would, right now, pick up your phone, or your computer, or whatever it is, go to Amazon and say, “This book was worth my time,” because I will know when you do that. Thank you. All right.


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